I tried aiming like that once. And once was enough. Almost hurt myself. Dont even think about it. Road to t.p. hell.

 

Yep,

What wds said is the same for me.

You will find yourself "shooting on the fly" because it is so hard to keep the point steady, that pretty soon when you get close to the bull, you will punch it (pluck it) and soon after that, T.P. may start to set in.

SOME people may be successful with it, but MOST are not.

Don

 

I always use to aim (Gap) both eyes open but have been experimentring with one eye closed as it gives a much more definite aim/sight picture, very much in focus and precise. Haven't noticed the tip moving arround too much really. I have only been shutting the eye at the very last part of the process.

For me anyway - ymmv.

that being said I have been trying to decide whether to revert back to both eyes open again - will decide soon. Likely I will revert to both open as sometimes it is easy to forget to squint and I would prefer an easier more forgiving natural shot routine, which is both open. Also closing one eye/squinting involves uses extra muscle inducing tension which is not needed with both open.

there seem to be pluses and minuses to both.

That being said I am very strongly right eye dominant so the degree of dominance might be in play?

Just another variable to mess you up or mess around with!

 

Seeing more is a good thing....if you can accept that no one can hold absolutely still and not let it effect their shot sequance. Good offhand rifle shooters using magnification up to 10-12 X can shoot impressive groups@200 meters by committing to the shot, holding their best, and simply pressing the trigger until the shot breaks...knowing that they cannot hold the cross hairs perfectly in the middle and that the subconscious will correct....if they don't anticipate and try to hold control over the exact moment the shot fires....as archers we can do the exact same thing and never try to control the exact instant our shot breaks, but be diligent in our shot process.

 

I want both open all the time. Depth perception and movement/fast shooting on Game is my priority. If I'm shooting a scoped Rifle, I have to have a rest. I demonstrated this to a couple of guys out at Wilson's years ago. Two of the very best shots in the world of pistols both had their scoped bolt action Rifles. I set two targets at 100 yards, one each. I told them they could use their slings but had to shoot standing unsupported. The time factor was 5 shots in 20 seconds. They both shot at the same time and was surprised when we walked up to the Targets and looked. Both had 6-9 inch groups, both groups were to the left of center. My point was this; Precision is too often measured by the potential measured without first considering the human element. Both these guys could shoot their rifles at the same distance from a shooting table and sandbag rest, and shoot sub MOA 3 shot groups. Standing unsupported and with a time element their Physiologic inputs determine the standard by which the accuracy is relative. Archery is also relative to the standard set by the potential to refine the aim. I am not really sure that there is to much gain by narrowing the field of view by closing one eye. Interesting topic.

 

Do not close one eye. i used to shoot small bore target rifle iron sight. If you close one eye it will effect the amount of light your shooting eye recieves. Through a peep sight your sight picture will seem darker with one eye closed. Most people will shoot better with both eyes open.

 

I dont know about any one else but the more i run the shot in the conscious and let the subconscious take care of the aim the better i shoot. When was the last time you aimed your hand when you reached out to pick up your beer? Did you look at the hood of your truck when you drove to the last shoot. Aim your feet alot when you walk? Split vison is the most i can do and that is a push. Most of my shooting is 40 yards or less. 3D and hunting is all i do. The more i shoot the more i think it is about form and less about anything else. AIMING is the last thing on my list of things to do. ymmv.

 

I agree. The more I have tried to aim the worse it gets for me.

 

offhand rifle shooters very quickly learn to work with the movement. no one can hold absolutely steady (though I know a couple handgunners that seem to come damn close) optical sights with any degree of magnification just make the movement more erratic.

when using one eye with a bow it takes away a whole bunch of the subconscious references you have worked hard to develop and forced an inordinate amount of emphasis on that arrow point in your conscious vision. I really doubt you were moving it any more or any less than before----just a WHOLE lot more aware of it and you get distracted with the motion that previously was just part of the background "noise" of the aiming process.

I have several scopes for my offhand schuetzen rifles, up to a 40x for a 22 rimfire offhand 200 yard rifle.

I don't think I actually move any more or less than with a 14x but the clarity at 200 yards makes the movement so MUCH more obvious it can almost make you motion-sick

 

I've been getting older and loosing my good eye sight for a few years now. When I look at the iron sights on a rifle, the whole picture is kind of a blur. All one can do is align the blurry mess up just like when you were a kid and could focus. Still can shoot pretty well though. A blurry picture doesn't seem to effect accuracy al that bad. The bow may be the same way. If one can settle into his form and find a sight picture, allow a clean release and get a little follow through, Your likely going to get a pretty accurate shot. Aiming can be as big a problem as I make it.

 

For many years I shot hunting and 3D distance. Thus my arrow was always under the spot by some distance. Somewhere in there I learned to cheat the gap by tuning longer and/or heavier arrows. Later I learned to slide the string or string walk. I still HAD to have the gap under the target. Lately I have come back to bullseye shooting.....I still have to have a gap under the spot.

Rusty

 

I think it all comes from a trained brain. It knows there is supposed to be a gap between the arrow point and the spot and it is not happy till it is right

Rusty

 

I havent shot a bow with sights in a long while.Last night i put a of fiber optic sights on my bow.That a buddy of mine left here.It was the most nerve racking thing i've done in a while.It's incredable how much your bow arm moves with those things on there.It got dark and i got disgusted.Came home tonight took them off and my arm was rock solid.I dont think i'll try that again.

 

Actually your bow arm move the same amount you only increased the ability to see the movement.

I shoot with both eyes open, as my focus on target after the shot is much better with both eyes open...My previous post wasn't about shooting with one eye or two, but to address the misconception , more movement comes with increasing the ability to see....THE MOVEMENT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THERE!

When scopes became popular on target sights, a lot of the oldtimers, tried them and said the same thing...that !@~%@#%# scope makes me move all over target....truth is, with magnification, they now had the means to see how much they always wobbled on target and why their scores hadn't been up to par in several years.

 

since, unless we are using string peep "aiming" is one of those imprecise terms archers are so fond of. we ALL "aim" in some way. we develop over some period of learning a system of visual and kinesthetic (muscle memory) references which allow us to project an object, our arrow, to a selected location. For some it is a deliberate conscious system of aligning the body position (form) with the arrow point in some relationship to the target, call it gapping or point of aim or some other term. String and face-walking are simply distance compensation systems.

some of us work to develop a system that is less conscious, deliberate and more "intuitive", by dint of a lot of practice and effort we learn to adjust, judge distance, wind etc without making a deliberate referents to the arrow, hand, riser or other physical reference and the target. Whether we like it, or admit it, or not we are still computing those visual references, just letting it happen on a subconscious level.

Closing one eye, if we are used to shooting with both open and using equal input from both, screws up our habituated reference system. LIke wise if we normally close one, or use a system that gives one eye or the other primary focus duty, and we open both equally we' screw up the system.

 

I kinda figured that was the case Rod.I know it will mess you up.And i dont think i'll try that trick again.LOL

 

I shoot a sight ever once in a while. I like the Beiter 1/2 frame with no aiming post. ya just put the target spot in the middle of the frame (it is diamond shaped). I am not too good at it. I don't really shot the sight much better than I shot stringwalking. I can't really shot an aiming dot at all.

rusty

 

Shooting a compound with the let-off makes is easier to hold on target, even just knowing you have all the time you need, with the Recurve subconsciously you know there is a time limit where if you dont make the shot within a certain time frame the chances of being able to control the bow become less and less.

I shot a full Fita rig last month and it was much easier to settle the bow and hold on aim, seems that if the bow isn't stabilized like a full Fita setup then it's better for most of us to shoot with two eyes open and let the subconscious decide when the shot it good.

Aiming is done on a conscious level, as in seeing where you want to arrow to hit and setting sight, gap etc but the moment to pull the trigger\release needs to be subconscious.

When I've made great 65, 70 and 80y shots it's always because I let the subconscious decide when the shot is good and didn't force the release to happen, my conscious job is really only to control the shot sequence and form. We do this on short range shots without thinking but when it comes to longer distances we suddenly think more effort is required and the conscious somehow bullies the subconscious into taking over the job

 

I shoot with one eye open. I do not seem to have a problem with the arrow tip moving. I have tried two eyes open. The first time I tried I lost my balance and fell down. It turns out that my eyes were fighting for dominance. Occassionally, it would work. It really depended on where I was focussing my vision as I drew the bow. If I focussed on the wrong place -- down I'd go. It was very entertaining. I am thinking of trying it again, but only if I have a nice soft place to land.

 

Huhhh? So you guys are experimenting with eyes open...... Interesting.

 

I have always shot a bow with only my right eye open...
I am very very very right handed.... but my eyes cant decide.... so I shut my left eye.. always have done.... even with a shotgun on fast flying birds... never been a problem.

Interestingly enough I use my left eye for photography... nothing else.

For gap, semi instinctive, and stringwalking I close my left eye, and I dare to say that I shoot OK.....

Even for 3D, my distance estimation is done way before I am at full draw...
For hunting... again, my eye closes as I reach full draw... not a problem.

If you want to shoot with both eyes open, go for it.. but no one is gonna tell me that I would shoot better with both eyes open.... :2cents:

 

There are a lot of reasons for variation in aiming, IMO they mostly have to do with our individual physical differences. Some are simply not able to "see" with both eyes open and look down the shaft. Others can't close one eye, they also simply can not perform that task....

Rod's first and second post is spot on. Being both an old and long time competitive rifle and pistol shooter, the matter if innate movement is a fact of life. We all have a built in degree of it due to our muscle and skeletel structure and the way we face ourselves toward our intended target. Lateral variation is "adjusted" by a simple shifting of foot position, while vertical (all else being equal) by a bit of upper body form.

For the firearms competitors, accepting their "minimum arc of movement" is a fact of life. Realizing the "what" and "how much" is useable in putting more shots in the "X".

Tom

 

As Rod said
"actually your bow arm move(s) the same amount you only increased the ability to see the movement.....THE MOVEMENT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THERE! ......When scopes became popular on target sights, a lot of the oldtimers, tried them and said the same thing...that !@~%@#%# scope makes me move all over target....truth is, with magnification, they now had the means to see how much they always wobbled on target and why their scores hadn't been up to par in several years."

And if you really want to mess up your head, tape a laser pointer to your riser.
I remember fairly early in the compound days someone came up with a laser bow sight. it was basically a laser pointer in a bracket that could be adjusted with a couple set screws. Seemed like a good idea at the time, until you put it on a bow and actually tried to shoot it at a small target at anything over 15 yards. that jitterbugging little red dot was impossible to control and its movement destroyed your anchor/release reflex. You never got the right visual to let go and either punched the release in frustration or let down. It might have worked for "min. of deer" 15 yard tree stand gimmie shots---maybe for a guy who needed the latest and greatest. it was moot because MI banned them along with other electrical or electronic illuminated sights.

I use a laser-level to align my wind-flag setup for 100 and 200 yard schuetzen matches. Using its magnetic base to mount it to the rifle barrel it is well nigh impossible to hold the laser dot on the 2'x2' 100 yard target backer or the 4x4 one at 200. too much induced movement and trying to "hold/force it steady" just adds more movement. ( The laser "sights" on defensive handguns are designed for close range and have much larger dots)

 

Rod or Tom,

Have you found that breath control can help to reduce the movement that we have? I was taught this in the Marine Corps. We would find our natural point of aim, shut our eyes, take a big deep breath, release the breathe and then open our eyes. If we were still on the bullseye we slowly squeezed the trigger until the rifle fired.

If after the breath and release we were not on target we adjusted our postion and followed the same steps again until we found our natural point of aim.

 

Breath control does help settle things down and if done right helps the blood brain oxygen thing. Its a core basic in rifle and handgun sports, and I am fairly sure that FITA archers, the embodyment of deliberate archery shooting do it on a regular basis.
Most folk wind up doing it to some extent consciously or not on a target range. Its when you get in the woods shooting on a more reflexive basis, or on moving targets it presents a problem.

Aiming, or better yet, consciously trying to hit the target, is just made up of SO dang MANY different components and factors

 

As some of you know I shoot both recurves and target compounds. On my compound, I use a 6X scope and a clarifier peep so that my old eyes can clearly see the target.

The main thing that I have to do to avoid being bothered by the movement is to not care about it. Accept it and shoot my form. It's the same with my recurves.

If I start to think about the movement. I've lost focus on aiming and it's time to let down.

Allen

 

I may be somewhat controversial with this but I'm gonna say it. There are those that have worked their form so much that it has become ingrained. There are those like myself that are still working the fine points of their form to refinement.I believe from what I have gleaned here over the years is that there are actually two kinds of progressed or advanced shooters. The first being those who have worked the fine points of their form to refinement and settled on exactly how their form sequence and application should be and then ran it on the bale enough to have ingrained to the point that it is subconscious. This shooter is totally satisfied with How his form is done and now just needs to run his daily drills to maintain it. This shooter is at the subconscious level with his form and is now free to let the shot run itself and just aim.

Then there is the second guy that is me. We are still deciding what refinements need to be integrated and are still working on "Exactly" how our form needs to be refined and "set in stone". Until we reach the level that the first shooter has reached, we may run the shot a bit consciously. I am working my form until it is good enough to be sub conscious. Until I reach that level, I will be as I have heard said, "Consciously checking" to make sure it is correct. Once I get there, I will be free to refine my aiming and be a better shot!