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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I'll start off.

7 yards split finger index anchor. 1/2" arrow length hanging over back it full draw. I am direct aiming at the ball. The arrow hit 20.5" high. On the stacked dot field target it would be highly unlikely you would score well with a 20.5" gap

 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Things to think about. You can only have one anchor. Your finger must touch the arrow. If you are shooting enough draw weight, you can get a 3" gap from a cheek bone anchor and aim off the shelf to make it to 80 yards.

As you go down in draw weight your problems increase.
 

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My highest anchor with 3 under gets me a gap similar to your top picture or maybe even a bit more.

-Grant
 

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20.5" is ~50cm. Those targets are 20cm targets, I believe. So you need to aim 2 and a half targets below your target with point of aim. Can you cope with that? You might need to visualise a 'virtual' target sheet under the bottom of your sheet. That would give you a point to aim at.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Tucking my draw up under my cheek bone bard I could only get a couple more inches. Just about an 8" gap with an arrow (little weak) 1/2" longer than my amo draw. now comes the fiddling. We can use a longer arrow. This would cut the gap at 7yds and increase the gap at 80 yards.



I was holding direct on bottom center dot. These are the arrows that were shooting weak yesterday.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I am going long now. I want to see if I can find an arrow that will get to 80 yards with my shelf some where on the target. Got some 800 vap coming.
 

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Thanks for all of this Rusty - it is a very interesting.

Alan
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Lets see what arrow length does at 7yards. Using three under release and a middle finger behind eye tooth. The 700 were 28.5" behind the point gave my a ten inch gap. These arrows are ACE 660 26&3/4" back of point. So this arrow is 1.75" shorter.

 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
So on the short distance end I lost three inches of gap with the 28.5" arrows. Now the question is how much did that 1.75" of arrow cost me in point on distance? this also begs the question how much point on distance did I give up from split finger with index finger release to three under middle finger release??
 

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I don't have a problem with a high anchor, I can get it high enough to have a 20 yard point on if I want. I just struggle with the huge gaps at the shorter yardages when I get my point on around 45-50 yards.

Keep in mind my gaps range a lot more than what you guys deal with. I can only get so much speed with my longbow and wood.

Yesterday I was messing around with my anchor trying to get a point on at 50. I'm going to shoot field using split so that way if I ever want to shoot any IFAA I won't have to deal with switching from 3 under. Anyway, I put my pointer finger on my canine and was point on around 50 yards. I went down to 20 just to see what I was dealing with. I aimed close to 2 feet low...the arrow ended up about a foot high and in the wood. Broken arrow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Here is an NFAA standard unit

.A.1.a. Standard Unit. A standard unit consists of four shots each at 14 different targets. The 14 targets are (not in any order):
♦ 15, 20, 25 and 30 yards at a 35-cm face (4 total).
♦ 40, 45 and 50 yards at a 50-cm face (3 total).
♦ 55, 60 and 65 yards at a 65-cm face (3 total).
♦ 35-yd, 4-position "fan" at a 50-cm face (1 total).
♦ 4-position "walk-ups" (3 total):
♦ 35-30-25-20 feet at a 20-cm face.
♦ 45-40-35-30 yards at a 50-cm face.
♦ 80-70-60-50 yards at a 65-cm face.

A little pencil whipping and you can see that you don't really want your bow maximized for either end of the distance, your points come from 20 to 60 yards. You for sure want you bow to be on the face at 60 yards. 70 yards would be better. 45 to 55 yard point on will get you a lot of points.
 

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I'm no expert on field shooting but I do enjoy shooting long range quite a bit. Several years ago all my setups had point on distances somewhere in the 50-60 yard range and I felt confident in shooting anything out to 75-80 yards. Over the last few years I've setup my bows and adjusted my form to specialize in the short range 3D stuff. On the whole it's worked well but I feel like I've lost some of the skill and abilities for the long shooting. So this thread is great because I'm setting up a bow right now for field and I'm revisiting my old methods for aiming.

For longer shooting I always liked a fairly long point on. I hate aiming over stuff much, I'm not very good at it. If I can have point on somewhere in the 50-60 yard range I find I can shoot out to about 70 yards or so by using the wire on the rest on the target face. I'm not aiming off some imaginary point, I'm still using a hard reference so my pea brain can make that work. To accommodate the shorter stuff I always used to set a pre-draw gap. By doing this I was able to have two point on distances. A pre-draw point on and full draw point on. For example, with my old setup I had a 57 yard PO at full draw. If I set the tip on the target before drawing I had a shorter set of holds. My pre-draw PO was 40. So, I'd set my bow arm with the tip referenced on the face like a normal gap and draw straight back. At that point I only used the shaft for windage and trusted the elevation would remain constant. The beauty of the system for me was having easy to compartmentalize holds at most distances. I'd have to look at my old notes but I my pre-draw PO holds were all within 10" from 0-40 yards and past that I'd use a full draw holds to reference the target. It sounds more complicated than it really is but worked nicely for me. Not the best method for hunting or moving targets but for static situations I found it to be a solid method.

The other method I can see being a very valid aiming system is pick a point. I think most people see it as a means of aiming at longer stuff but it works great at close stuff too. If you have a long PO and huge close range gaps you can find references to pick points on the target for close targets. For example, if I shot with my current setup and put the point on the bull, like Rusty is doing above, at 20 yards my arrows will hit close to 2 ft over the bull. But, if I line up the plunger with the bull and look at the shelf than draw and move my arrow to that spot below the bull I'll be on the money. That's one other method I'm spending more time looking into. With practice a guy could get a reference for pretty much any distance. I believe Alan E. uses a similar method for field archery and we all know what kind of scores he's shot.

Chris
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Totally ignorant about this.

Are you allowed to use different arrow weights for different distances?
Sorry Webster no. In NFAA it is one length arrow, one nocking point, one anchor point and at least one finger on the arrow.

I guess tat is what all this is about. Trying to figure out what works best.

Edit - it is my opinion that NFAA recurve is the hardest game we play. I would just like to score every arrow one time :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
These limbs are 28# on my fingers. The arrows are 294 gas for 10.5 gpp. 10 shots thru the chrono,gave 173 fps avg with 5 dupes and 3fps variance. The riser and the limbs get along very well.

7 yards with 13" gap would be doable withe a lift practice



The problems is at 27 yards I got a 14" gap. I haven't calculated the point on yet but it is gonna be too close. these arrows are not optimum. Need some lighter ones



These arrows are tuned pretty well. Had a left hand wind :). these arrows would be good 3D arrows. Not so good for long range end
 

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Ok first thing when setting up a field bow is how many arrows you shoot at 80. Two and only two so dont get hung up on having your shelf on the target at 80yds. Having a 190fps or better is a big help. I shoot 40lbs 291/2" draw 320gr 470 ACE Sandy has 37lbs 27" draw and a 670 ace. both of us have a 45 yd point on. I anchor second finger in the mouth then tilt my head forward until my eyebrow touches the string.
Gaps
bunny instinctive
15 5/8"
20 5/8"
25 1/2"
30 3/8"
32 5/16"
35 1/4" bottom of paper
40 just show a little daylight under the spot
45 cover the spot
48 half moon the spot with tip or top of the 4 ring
50 top of the paper or center my spring on the spot
55 bottom of spring on top of the spot
60 is nomans land that space between bottom of spring and my front shelf
65 front shelf on the spot
70 top of back shelf on the spot
80 is compilicated start with front shelf on the bottom of the paper look where the tip of my arrow is then move front shelf up to where the tip was.
Now this does not mean your gaps will be the same it all depends on fps length of arrow and how close the arrow is to your eye.

Now the first thing you are going to say is I can't do that. Well then I can't help you. But you can if you work at it and it may not be easy and your new anchor will feel weird you will get used to it I did.

Next is how to shoot pick-a-point like some guy here does and whips up on some of us here
Gary
 
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