Murtha dead

[Bowcephalus]

If a set of ideas that cause suicide can be perpetuated, how much more so for a set of ideas that are more benign and beneficial to the indvidual.

Sure. But that is precisely what distinguishes morality from instinct or learned behavior.
I do not think the moral thread to be derived from teachings of society. Sure our parents and such teach us sets of conventions aligned or misaligned with morality, but the moral impetus is deeper than that. Often it even overcomes that learned behavior, even acting in opposition to it. What you refer to above is a countermanding of the moral, not the moral itself. That makes the case for the objectivity of the moral, and the subjectivity of its countermand.

[raisins]

Originally Posted by Bowcephalus

Sure. But that is precisely what distinguishes morality from instinct or learned behavior.
I do not think the moral thread to be derived from teachings of society. Sure our parents and such teach us sets of conventions aligned or misaligned with morality, but the moral impetus is deeper than that. Often it even overcomes that learned behavior, even acting in opposition to it. What you refer to above is a countermanding of the moral, not the moral itself. That makes the case for the objectivity of the moral, and the subjectivity of its countermand.

I don't think it is simply learned behavior. It's partly genetic, partly gotten from culture/learning, and partly reasoned out by the individual. It can even be gotten from religious teachings, but this isn't necessary. I personally don't feel that any of us are in a position to determine teh depth of the moral impetus. We humans have the nasty habit of assuming the greatness of our various characteristics without having anything close to a yardstick for it. As far as our morals fighting with our learned behavior, is this not what we would also expect from a mind raised in an environment riff with contradiction? In fact, I'll bet that your personal morality contains paradoxes as well. What you call the deeper moral sense could just be the particular idea that won out that day, or the one you acted upon. As far as your countermand etc talk, you lost me there. I don't feel you showed how morality as originating as I described it is less likely than your idea. My idea is inherently simpler, as your ideas could include these influences but also needs the supernatural.

[Dartwick]

Mybe I missed it but other than the tangent of asking for links on Plato, Bow seems to be talking in circles.

Is he still trying show that axioms arent subjective?