Fita limbs for a Gamemaster

[Cueball]

I have a Hoyt gamemaster and was wondering has anybody tried to put a set of fita limbs on this bow yet? I like mine alot but have been wondering if I could get better performance out of some fita limbs or if they would be a bit quiter. I know the limbs that come on the bow are kind of on the low end of limbs and would really consider trying to upgrade if it is possible to put fita limbs on this bow.


...............................................Rob y.............................

[Desert Archer]

Over on the Sagittarius board there is a discussion by a guy in Florida who just bought a Gamemaster on eBay. He was talking with Limbwalker about adopting a pair of ILF limbs for it. You might check there or try to contact Limbwalker about how it's done. Bob Gordon may have some ideas along these lines too.

I didn't think it would work because the Gamemaster isn't set up for ILF limbs but John (Limbwalker) said the ILFs could be modified to fit. Good luck!

Dave

[James Wrenn]

It seems that I remember a thread on the old site where John was talking about taking off the dove tail on the ILF limbs and useing the pin on the gamemaster riser.You might could look there if it is still up.

BTW... Roby that is a great picture of the kids and pup. :) You have your hands full!

[Cueball]

James, I like that pic as well only one thing missing. Thats my beautiful wife as always she was serving her family by taking that photo. God has trully blessed this redneck boy.


Desert not familar with the Sagi board could you give a url

I will check the old site real quick for an old post.

Thanks guys keep em coming.



...........................................Roby... ......................................
:bow2: :jesus: :bow2:

[Desert Archer]

Cue,

Here it is: http://sagittarius.student.utwente.nl/bb/

Thread is titled "Aerotech vs Gamemaster" or words to that effect.

Dave

[Scooter]

Cueball. I did this playing around one day. It's not hard. I never did get a chance to chrono it so I can't tell you what the perfromance improvment was. You could use the hardware from your gamemaster limbs as doner or make new ones from hardware store parts.

Basically the gamemaster uses Olympic FITA type limbs minus the ILF fitting. That said, most ILF limbs (read carbon limbs) should fit with some mods. This gives you some options for length and limb cores etc. Going rate on ebay is about 200.00 for a pair of carbons. You need a 3/8" O.D. by 1/4" I.D. bushing. You will need to drill it out slightly as the gamemaster pin is about .260". You may need to lengthen the limb bolt slot slightly on some limbs. I had to do this on a set of W&W. These were rated at 46# limbs on a 23" riser and came in around 50# on the gamemaster. I did not get a chance to chronograph it but I felt it was smoother at my 28" draw.

Hope that helps.

[Bob Gordon]

Scooter has it right, all it takes is a bushing, home made or bought that is 3/8" on the outside and a little more that 1/4" on the inside. Easy to make and will let you play with some longer, faster limbs. Most Olympic type limbs have a 3/8" hole for the ILF hardware, some may take a little filing to bring the hole up to 3/8" as not all makes of limbs are the exact same but it is a real easy conversion to do....warf

[Cueball]

Spoke to Warf about this project and he has me fired up about doing it. It make take some time but I will report back upon completion or destruction.


.............................................Roby. ................................

[Cato]

The bad news is that Cueball is planning to use a set of my limbs for this experiment. I don't guess it should bother me that he's never done anything like this before. :help:

[Bob Gordon]

Cato...I talked Cueball thru it and told him not to worry as they wern't his limbs! Just a real big hammer and ten or twelve heavy hits should pop out the ILF fittings and any damage will be under your limbs so they won't show much. Besides they are used limbs anyhow. Don't use any padding in the vice as the limbs might slip. Isn't warfing fun!!!...LOL....warf

[Cato]

Why do I have this mental picture of somebody that looks like Albert Einstein working on my limbs? :sbrug:

[the other DWS]

Bob, you forgot to to tell him that if they offer any resistance to the hammer, heating them with a blow torch might help loosen them up
:mistake:

[Cueball]

Best I can figure these are old beat up limbs. Probally still under warranty if Cato kept the reciept. Worse case scenario a little JB Weld and some duct tape and they will be as good as new. Warf this is the perfect time of year to do this project. Cato is so covered up with tax stuff if i do destroy the limbs then odds are he really want remember who he let borrow those limbs anyhow.


.................................................. .......Roby....................................... :highfive:

[DAS]

That's all good advice Bob! Fita limbs are tough,....they can take it!

[Bob Gordon]

Cato...Einstein had a lot more hair than cueball. I bet when he gets the limbs on the Gamemaster you will have a problem getting them back, he probably will say something like he wished he didn't use so much epoxy or something and they ended up being glued on or his big dog chewed one up pretty bad. Bet you can get payback pretty good when you do his taxes this year. I told him that if the limbs come out to heavy on his riser a few minutes in the microwave will reduce the weight pretty fast and give a nice "soft" feel to them when drawn. Have a nice day....warf

[thisbucks4u]

damn. you guys are rough

[Cato]

Now that it's morning, and my eyes are a little clearer, it wasn't Einstein after all.........it was Curly from the three Stooges.

I don't guess that's a real good sign.

I'd better make a note to double his fee.

[larry yien]

When I first shot the Gamemaster I wondered why Hoyt didn't just use the ILF, and like cueball, I was trying to figure out how a conversion could be done. From reading the previous posts sounds like a conversion is in the works. :)

I read a post on another forum by the guy that designed the Gamemaster. He said they went to a bolt down limb to make it quieter. The dovetail, slip in mechanism of the ILF might be a little noiser than the bolt down limb.

I still prefer the ILF for ease and the fact that no tools are required for t/d.

Larry

[Cueball]

I am here to rebutt the notion that my handle Cueball has anything to do with my hair. It actually came from my long tenure on the Word Nine Ball Association tour of champions. If you watch ESPN 2 late at night you can see me winning the coveted crown several years straight. However there are those among us who know me and see me on a fairly normal basis and can back up the fact that i have a wonderful long head of jet black hair. The photo in my avatar if you look closely you can see that I am wearing a skull cap which is often used by long distance runners. So here it is proof that Cueball has some way cool hair.

[Cato]

Larry,

From reading around about the Gamemaster, if they were hoping they made it quieter, somebody goofed. :) Seriously, one of the issues with the bow has been noise. There are some pretty good threads on several sites about how to get them quiet, but it does take some effort. In contrast, with Robert's MM string on one of these compound conversions with olympic limbs, they aren't noisy.

I have a Gamemaster out on loan from a local shop. I love the way it feels and shoots. But the inablilty to use the standard Olympic limb is a real drawback to me. For whatever benefit they may have gotten by changing the limb bolt system, for me, they lost a lot of appeal by not being able to switch and swap limbs easily. The limbs that come with the bow are apparently the Edge limb. I'd prefer to have a carbon limb myself.

All kidding aside, if this conversion thing works, I think it will be a real plus.

[Cato]

How in the world this thread got to this point I have no idea. But if Cueball has a full head of jet black hair,...........Elvis is alive and well in Hot Coffee Mississippi.

[Spike]

Roby, a "G" letter drill bit will provide a good fit to the pins on the gamemaster drilling out a 1/4 ID 3/8 od brass bushing. I made up some bushings, but haven't seen a set of limbs yet that were right for my needs and $.

[Cato]

I've got a set of Gamemaster limbs that are about 45# @28" that I'd like to sell if anyone knows of anyone who might be interested. They are marked 40# but are heavier than that.

[DAS]

Guys,
I'd be careful about doing this yourself unless you have access to a lathe and know how to us it. First of all, the ILF dovetail holes in OLY limbs vary by manufacturer but NONE are 3/8". Hoyt holes are generally around .370 to .371. Win, Samick, PSE, and others are .358 to .360. If you enlarge the hole in the limb to accept a 3/8 bushing, and don't do it PERFECTLY, the limb is ruined. Just a few thousandths of misalignment in that hole will translate to an offset limb tip. Enlarging the limb hole also means the ILF dovetail cannot go back in so you can't re-sell the limb. The same goes for the center hole. It has to be done on a lathe or you will almost certainly end up with a crooked mess! :2cents:

[Spike]

Turn the bushing OD down to fit the ILF hole, don't bore it out.

[Desert Archer]

I tossed this out on the Sagittarius board and am still curious. Have any of you who like this riser configuration thought about finding a 23" Aerotec and putting short limbs on it? You would have a 64" bow with much the same shooting characteristics. In fact it would be heavier and would probably shoot better (more stable).

Dave

[Cato]

DA,

I have been looking, no lusting, after the Aerotec riser for a while. Not really sure why, just wanted to give it a whirl. But, for one thing, its expensive. And finding a 23" used doesn't look too promising. And its heavier. That would be "hunky dory" for targets, but might get a little old in the woods.

The Gamemaster has a great feel to it. I'm not sure what it is, but it just sems pretty user friendly. The one I have is out on loan, but if I can find someone who wants the limbs, then I'm in the riser at a pretty affordable price. Otherwise, I probably have to pass and take it back.

If I could find a 23" Aerotec used for a reasonable price, I'd probably just go that route.

[DAS]

Well,
I've talked to Bob about this and he is too busy to take on these conversions so if anyone wants their limbs professionally converted for a Gamemaster, send me a PM. I also have anti-vibration parts that I can install that should quiet the bow a bit. I will probably offer a conversion kit in the future too.

[Desert Archer]

Cato,

Yea the Aerotec would be heavier than the Gamemaster but since so many here love the Warf bow with the lead Bob adds to them I always figured the extra weight of the Aerotec would be welcome. Keep your eyes open on eBay. I have seen a couple 23" risers for sale there because most of the target shooters want to up grade to the 25". You might just pick one up for less than retail.

Even with the added expense, if you buy the riser then later acquire the limbs it spreads the cost out over time and might be a little easier to manage. I used to do gun projects that way when I couldn't afford a full house custom on a cop's salary.

Dave

[Cato]

DA,

I'll probably pass on the Gamemaster. So if you happen to see a 23" Aerotec riser for sale please, and you aren't interested, would you mind sending me an IM, or preferable and email?

Thanks a bunch.

Cato

[Desert Archer]

Will do!

Dave

[3dchamp]

Our there any pic of this change to the gamemaster and if so can you post or send them to me at hoytman60@yahoo.com
Bill :shooting:

[larry yien]

I shot the Gamemaster last year at the Redding Trail Shoot, it seemed to be both smooth and quiet. But I don't doubt that folks have had problems with noise, there are plenty of variables that can make a bow noisy. I hope those folks find their way around the noise and tame the GM to a "purr with power."

The bow I shot had silencers which eliminated the Hoyt buzz upon "the loose".

I thought about picking up a Gamemaster, but opted for a "previously owned" :) Hoyt riser, a little camo and it's ready to go. Besides, I've still got good stock in ILF limbs from 35#-50#. This all simplifys my life since I can still use my ILF limbs and I don't have to buy into a whole new system.

I wonder if Hoyt would consider producing the Gamemaster with ILF pockets?

Larry

[muddy udders]

How is the progress coming?
I have a GM and an old Pro medalist with two sets of light limbs and am debating whether to convert one set of the PM limbs to fit the GM. It looks like if I knock out the threaded bushing in the limb replace it with the correct OD and ID bushing then lengthen the slot it should work.

Before I "butcher" the limbs does any one know that this definately won't work or if they are museum pieces and I would be committing some act that would never be forgiven by the Archery Gods?


Thanks,
Muddy

[Bob Gordon]

Muddy...It will work, if the GM uses the ILF type limb hardware it is a thinner limb than the older style limbs and you will need to come up with a longer part that screws in the the bottom limb "mushroom" fitting, other than that it's pretty easy. You also will lose a lot of the weight adjustability due to the thicker, flat bottom of the older limbs. You will harm nothing in the process and they all can be put back the way they were....warf

[Scooter]

Just out of curiosity has anyone done the reverse swap? Meaning converting gamemaster limbs to ILF. When I did the ILF to gamemaster swap I got about the same poundage even with the different limb angles primarily due I believe to the difference in brace height. My FITA bow was 1" greater so in effect I drew the limbs an additional inch on the GM riser even though the limbs were raked back a few degrees. My scale reads in large increments and I'm not sure how accurate it was. Anyway the reason I ask and the only two reasons I could see to do this would be to get a longer bow and or take advantage of the already camoed and higher poundage of the gamemaster limbs. ILF limbs max out at 50# but GM limbs go up to 65#. Might make a sharp looking bow too. Imagine a black 23" aerotec riser with camo gamemaster limbs...... Oh Oh there I go again getting crazy ideas.

Bob I think your doing a conversion for cueball. Can you report how the marked poundage on the limbs compares to what you get on the gamemaster riser?

[Bob Gordon]

Scooter..The Gamemaster I converted over to ILF limbs came out pretty good, easy thing to do. I used new W&W Focus carbon/wood limbs marked 42 lbs, they were the short limbs as that is what the Gamemaster uses. On my digital scale they came out at 53 lbs at Cueball's rather short 30" draw. Didn't measure them for a shorter draw. Should make a pretty fast bow. They were much smoother drawing even at my 32" draw than the Hoyt limbs....warf

[Cueball]

Bob, I am still on board the ship but just checking in to see what is going on. That sounds great I can't wait to get my hands on this bow. I will give you some feedback when i return home. Maybe the bow will be there when i arrive. thank you so much.


........................................Roby...... ....................

[Scooter]

If we accept maybe a 4# loss in poundage per inch of draw then that puts it at about 3# higher than they were marked @28". Which is about what I got. The limbs I used were marked 44# and I got around 48-50# on my crude scale. Same as on my 23" Mizar riser. Fairly safe to say you should get a similar or slightly lighter poundage if you put GM limbs on a FITA riser.

Bob you see any reason you couldn't install ILF hardware in Gamemaster limbs?

[Bob Gordon]

Scooter...Looked like it would be no problem to swap ILF hardware into the Gamemaster limbs, just push out the Gamemaster bushing and install the new fittings, I imagine the hole is the standard Hoyt size....Not sure how nice those camo limbs would look on my metalic blue Avalon fita riser though!! LOL....warf

[Scooter]

Bob,

How's that Avalon for noise? I've got an Avalon plus (actually the wife thinks it's hers) and even with light 32# limbs it makes a heck of a "whop" when I shoot it. Since it's a target bow I haven't done anything like pad the limb pockets etc. Just wondering if there was something easy I haven't thought of.

[Stick'em]

Being a GM owner....let's clarify that :) ......Gamemaster owner I am very interested in what you guys are doing with those ILF limbs. For one thing what is a ILF limb? Sounds important :) , but since I am new to traditional archery ILF is a mystery to me.


Anyway, I would like to see pictures of the new modifications as well. What are the performance benefits? :help:

[Scooter]

Good question. Some of these terms and acronyms can be confusing to new comers.

ILF stands for international limb fitting. It is the location/pivot point used on many but not all FITA risers (FITA is a French term for international archery federation). Anyway it's the recurve bows you see used in the Olympics. It's a standard dovetail type setup and allows you to remove limbs without tools and swap limbs and risers of different makes including guys in Idaho who convert old compound risers to fit them. There's more than a few makers (Hoyt, Samick, Win&Win, Border, Greenhorn etc.). These limbs have more money poured into the design and research to enhance the performance than any single bowyer or relatively small company like black widow could think of doing. Many use carbon and foam with no wood. Wood limbs are good too. The Gamemaster limbs are the same wood/glass limbs minus the ILF. So using these limbs you could get carbon limbs of different lengths on that GM.

[Bob Gordon]

Scooter...The Avalon's I have make the typical carbon limb, metal riser noise, it can be knocked down pretty good for hunting with the usual thingee's on the string. My warfers make the same noise and they can be gotten pretty noiseless with puff balls on the strings and rubber brush buttons. You will never get one to sound like a longbow but I never had a deer or elk complain about the noise they make....warf

[Stick'em]

Scooter,

Thank you for taking the time to explain that to me. Appreciate that :cheers: .

Now I have one more for you....how does this limb differ in performance from the "G3 Parabolic Foam Technology Limbs" that Hoyt has listed on its website?

I get the dovetail and no tool aspect, but what about performance?

[Scooter]

Stick em,

The G3 is am ILF limb. All those hoyt limbs listed are ILF limbs the vector, edge G3 etc. Some are wood and glass. Some foam and carbon. The G3 is hoyts top of the line limb. ILF is just a generic term for the hardware. Lancaster archery will list some other makes along with prices. Be prepared for the G3 bill :eek: . If you want to read up on some shooters opinions of the G3 I would suggest a search on some of the FITA forums such as Archery Talk and the sagittarious board.

[Stick'em]

Well.....I'm not that good yet to appreciatre the G3 quite yet, but if I were the GM designer I would start looking at a high performance limb designs for the GM......a high-tech hunting recurve if you will.

[Scooter]

I did inquire one day to hoyt if their high end carbon/foam limbs could be had with a camo finish. They said yes "for a price" maybe around $100.00. No firm quote I'd have to go through a dealer for that.

[Lane Puckett]

I picked up a bow scale (Thanks Bob) and measured the draw weight of my Gamemaster.

57 pounds on a 28 inch arrow. Measured to the deepest part of the grip.

This is for a 50 pound limb marking.

Can't wait to get the 40# Winact limbs on it. That will be right there in the ball park of what I'm interested in.

This is a real neat bow and I think Hoyt has hit this nail on the head. My only reservation is the grip is going to take some getting used to. I'll tape it up to insulate it against the cold.

Those limbs should go on it sometime next week.

Lane

[Lane Puckett]

Thanks Hank I'll check into that as it sounds like it might work better than the stuff I'm looking at. The bike grip stuff seems a bit 'sticky' for a grip.

Lane