july scrape

[elkdreamer]

i set a lock-on day before yesturday.......medium size white oak .......midway down a strip of narrow old growth boardering on a marsh gut.........25 yrds dierectly away from it is 10 acres of 8 yr old mixed hardwoods ......predominately saw-tooth oaks........and they are loaded this year with acorns.......i thinned them late last winter ......had tagged the best fruit bearing ones. i just went in and layed over every other one and those that weren't bearing......awesome thicket..............between the hardwoods and the old growth marsh edge is one of my best food plots.......narrow .....about 25 yrds wide.......250/300 yrds deep. 1/3 white clover.....1/3 winter rye that i let stand and go to head...[will sow turnips over in late august]......and the front 1/3 is mullett and bob white soy beans............really ......so much food that right now it's hard to figure which trail they will enter on........

so today i went back to the stand i had just hung.......right at the food plot edge i pulled a pine limb down and tied it off about muzzle high to a kickass dream of a buck..........you know.......like the kind warf tries to keep to himself out in idaho.....[and yeah....they are here in maryland]......

took a heavy duty garden hoe and removed a large circle of clover from under that pine branch.......worked up the spot good .......smoothed it out.......then i poured half a gallen of my own synthetic magic lure on it.......

time to start shaking the tree..........stir the pot........time to let the old does and the big mr know that something else is comming down.........there will be tracks in it tonight.................the limb will be a licking branch by middle of next week.........and know for a fact that it will come active for sure by mid october.............i love messing with their heads.............though i have set this one to kill does over this late summer on the crop permits...........

summer r&d.............b

[OZ in MT]

Dang, Dreamer, you made ME hungry talking about that lush foodplot. If you don't score on that one, I'll recommend a good opthalmologist!:)

[Yohon]

:D :D :highfive: I have an idea were that might be ;)

Last night I watched a group of 6 bucks( all 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 yr olds) feed on the edge of a bean field and 3 of em walked, very determined like, to a licking branch and worked it over for a couple seconds. Scrapes in July!!!!!!

[elkdreamer]

oz.....that mullett/milo and bobwhite soybean combo i picked up from a friend of yohon's......bob palmer. the bobwhite is a climbing full season type bean....smaller than reg roundup ready beans .......get your milo/mulett up and then sow the beans......they climb right up the stalks......should be a killing field come mid october........

figured i would fire you up on this one john...........not many guys realize that the licking branch is the "fireplug" in the whitetail world......both does and bucks .......they really are the true signpost of a whitetails domain......and all the main ones will have a scrape opened up under them come the first or two weeks of october .......the same scrape that was there last year and the year before and as for back as the branch became a licking branch......i just decided to get one started where i wanted it..........this time of year they won't work a scrape .......but they sure as hell will check it out........this is going to be a hard year to hunt .........mast crop is going to be heavy.........a lot of late beans are in...........no way can the elevators handle the corn crop.........gonna have to do your homework this year buckaarooooos......b

[OZ in MT]

Ever stopped to figure out how many hours of work you have in a plot like that, BB? Not that it isn't well worth it, I'm just curious because where I grew up we'd just cultivate a few spare beans and peanuts along the marginal pasture next to and usually reaching into the post oak jungles. Sort of a part of our normal ranch cultivation, so really didn't add much time. But I remember well how those little open areas in the oak woodlots drew the big whities. Took my first with a bow in there in 1962 - nice fat 12 pointer. Found the rack in my basement not too long ago and strung him up at my Montana place next to the mulies and elk. LOL - just as big a trophy to me!

[Bob Palmer]

Howdy Fellas..imagine my surprise when I checked in to see what's going on at TradTalsk and I find two of my favorite fellows chatting about my favorite subject...Eastern Shore Whitetails!!! :highfive:

Hey Burgess...glad the Bob Whites are working out!!! I haven't got much in the ground this season...spending a bunch of quality time with the son this summer while he heal up...couple more weeks to go!!! My dadand hunting partner have put in about 15 acres so far...probably get another 2 or 3 this fall with Brassica crops, wheat and rye.

Yohon...I got the Greenwood guys number yesterday...hope to make a call next week and see what's what!!

[OZ in MT]

Welcome, Bob. Join us more often. I'm interested in plot cultivation for big game so anything you share will be well received here.

[Yohon]

Hey Bob!! See Burgess...all the good shooters show up here sooner or later....now there is a real good hunter here as well!!!!:)

Bob...let me know if there is anything I can do on the Greenwood situation...will be anxiously awaiting to hear from you on that:thankyou:

[Bob Palmer]

Just got in from some mid-summer scouting to see if a buck that left me some sheds this spring was still in the area...

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b147/Palmer234/July06a.jpg

...mission accomplished!!!:) :) :)

[Pinelander]

Have thought about food plots... but there's so much corn, beans, and alfalfa around here, it seems a waste of time. As a matter of fact, it would be better if Farmer Fred didn't plant so much of it. Haven't been interested in the antler-enhancing foods, they get big enough all on their own.... now if only I could sit on the right licking branch, on the right day, at the right time, LOL.

Cool picture, Bob. :D

[elkdreamer]

Just got in from some mid-summer scouting to see if a buck that left me some sheds this spring was still in the area...

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b147/Palmer234/July06a.jpg

...mission accomplished!!!:) :) :)

heeeeyyyy...bob........great to have you out for a ride.........that one's looking good......need a couple of stills......front and side.....what did the sheds look like.........??????????????...........when do you and your dad plan on planting the brassica .......generic or brand??????..........i am thinking about adding a little rape to the turnip seed and putting it in around late august.....

and gentlemen.......as yohon mentioned.......this palmer guy really knows how to kill big whitetail........with heavy barebows...........

oz.......i guess if i ever added up what i've put in money and time wise and .......well just the time........it would have been a career if i got paid for it......
this whole food plot thing..........i actually kill very few deer over food plots.......and those are usually in the summer.......though i did miss a dandy [guessing in the low 150's] last yr in the food plot that i'm talking about on this thread........with das's halo on my bow this year........that missing thing has come to an end..........we think....... i mainly do the food plot thing to keep does hanging and to make sure there is an early good protein source for jump starting the antler parade in the spring.......i'm very careful how i hunt them in the fall.......like trying to not put a lot of pressure around them in order to keep the does and yearlings comming in before dark........i hunt the scent checking trails and the access fingers off of the marsh edges......sorta keeping the food plots as safety zones until after the rut........after the rut........i just follow the doe faimly groups ........trying to time it with buck travel while you still have shooting light.

but back to food plot cost..........the bobwhite beans where the most expensive seed i have ever planted........running over 200 for 50 lbs per.....durana white clover is awesome stuff..........its not cheap but will out produce other white clovers bigtime and can take heavy browsing.....it's my
go through the winter/foundation plot seed and would be my choice if i had to plant only one kind of plot........i don't use a lot of equipment.....never till......i
do burn down a lot in the spring .......leave about 5 inches of burndown stubble and seed by hand and foot with an old crank seeder.......i use a jd 955 diesel with a deck and a bush hog to cut the clover about 2/3 times a summer and to knock down the other stuff in the spring.......i have about 3 acres in one plot that my cousin will no-till rotate beans and corn for me with his big equipment.......in turn for that ......i'm expected to kill as many does as i can in the summer over a ton of land that he farms.....since i only do that with a bow......well at least he still plants my plot for me........

i get great production out of my plots with hand spreading pelleted lime and fertilizer........chicken manure on the big plot........i mean i have crops as good as we did when i grew up on the farm........truth be known however......the guys that just lay out 50 lb of corn in the fall twice a week [and i've been know to do that along with them] kill for more deer over the corn than i do over the food plots.........i just find that food plots and all that goes into making them is just about the best dollar for dollar therapeutic thing you can do for your self when the rut is a long way off...........b

[Bowcephalus]

Those picts. look like soybean alley down here in the Delta......Little Bro. up in West VA is into the food plot thing heavy duty.....I used to hunt the scrapes years ago but most of the time that big ole buck would visit after darkness fell.........

[elkdreamer]

yeah bowceph----...........spent a ton of time myself sitting over "that" scrape........have killed some dandies over scrapes.......finially figured out that there is one........forget this primary thing.......there is one always with that one licking branch around every feeding area.....and i don't mean on an outside edge..........there is one with that one branch that the does will pass by ......chew ......nudge.........and bucks will check communications at that one .......all day long during the rut.........and the best time to hunt it is the last hour of a driving nor-easterner.......at least here on the shore......because the minute the rain lets up..........grab your tree and hang on.......you won't believe what you'll see.......but like you say........forget the ones on field edges........night checks only.......except that one on a finger tip.......that one....if it's being really hit......is a beautiful first light hunt......during the prefull rut wks and the trolling wks.......he'll always cut the corner and check it ........running late because he's been trying to get laid all night.......tired and guard down.......it's a sweet spot at dawn.......b

[Bowcephalus]

Sounds like you've refined it considerably........One of my favorite times to hunt is after an all night rain, early in the morning.....lots of movement then....

[OZ in MT]

Well, it's clear you've put a lot into these plots, Burgess, and have done a lot of tweaking to the food mix. On an open field type plot, there's much to what Boceph says about night visits, but down in the near southwest (OK and N. TX where most of the country is open and woodlots are rare) we found that was the true value of the small (10-20 acre) plots surrounded by heavy timber. They feel pretty safe in there during the border daylight hour of so. But it does occur to me, even those might not look so good to a wily old buckaroo who lives in places - Md, Miss, WV - where there is big, heavy timber all around. Sort of a relativity thing. Are you guys all pretty much agreed on that part about heavy doe attraction but not many daylight bucks?

This is a great thread, BB.

[Bob Palmer]

Burgess, Here's his sheds...I'll try and set the trail cam up next weekend and get a better look.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b147/Palmer234/Picture454.jpg

Probably can't tell, but the second buck in the previous picture has both front legs messed up...took a long slug shot from a neighbor in '03. His rack isn't much for width but he has a ton of junk around the bases...would love to have him but he is the wariest dude on the property!!

Mad dad has a mix he makes of rape, purple top turnips and some foragable kale that we plant in the fall...always add in some clover and rye for a "salad bar" mix. Works farely well!!

[Cato]

Great pics. With the 95+ degrees down here in MS, we can only dream. But the pics sure help.

Cato

[elkdreamer]

awesome genes there bob......eastern shore.....best kept secret in the nation for whitetail hunting........just like bowchep's bean alley.......mile after mile after mile of beans and corn.......and your holding those sheds pretty close together at the base.........i think we will all stay tuned for the hunt on this one bob.......

oz.....i get a lot of buck attention this time of year on the plots.....about a month ago or so.......last cold spell.......i went out on the doe crop damage stuff and counted 19 deer ......15 of them being antlered and most of them being well branched already........just as fall rolls around and the bachler groups start to break up.......the does and yearlings take over the plots during the late afternoon hours......and that just what you want to happen as magic time nears........the rise of the two moons........the harvest and the hunters........makes the hair stand up on your neck just thinking about it.....and that smell of fall.........the longer angle of the suns rays........of course you'll be listening for that first bugle .......this year i might even make it back to idaho................

cato ....it's just as bad up here......i just came in from setting another stand ......between my run this morn and this little dumb effort this afternoon .....this old man is about done for the day........got a ton of doe crop permits and i just can't get into it when they would turn green before they hit the ground......5 day forcast for up here looks even warmer than this weeks been.........b

[Bowcephalus]

"The smell of fall"........That would make a nice shaving cream......It seems like the best way to work those scrapes pre-rut down here, is to get in place well before daylight, downwind, between the scrape and a thick, brushy, bottom bedding spot.....The wind thing sometimes requires quite a round about hike in the dark....I've noticed the bucks are in the fields early morning up in Missouri on the place very early in the season (first week). At the first sign of human in the woods they seem to go noctournal in the open fields.....

[elkdreamer]

i'll go along with that early morn thing bowchephalus.......i don't do it as much as i used to........maybe i'll change this year........i just got so i hate getting up early........i usually hit the woods about 10/11 and go the rest of the day........more and more .....seeing the big ones mid day.........even checking that "one " scrape.......and seeing a lot of marsh movement midday.......during the rut...........but when i do get into the earlymorn thing.......i go in real early.....like....3:30/4:00......long before shooting light........and what i have noticed time and time again..........he comes and reworks the scrape just before you have light enough to shoot.....i mean he just stomps right in........you can make out this big shape......your flipping out because you can't see antlers nor a spot......and he's tearing up the ground.......i turned my headlight on once and almost fell out of the tree.......he was in the 160's if he was an inch........just watched him work the scrape..[light has no effect on them] ......finished what he was doing and just walked away........i never saw him in shooting legal light...............ever......

[Bowcephalus]

Know what you mean on that one.....Played the same cat and mouse game with one for two years.....Never saw him in light of day.....Neighbor shot him at around 1:30 pm with a new rifle standing in the middle of a bean field......

[OZ in MT]

Listening for the bugle or no, gentleman, this is a very nice little eastern whitetail refresher for me. No hauling butt up 60 degree canyon walls, not to mention those heavy quarters when you score. What you guys do is all about finesse and preparation - truly a beautiful thing and so many ways to skin that particular cat.

Again, guys, I'm really enjoying this thread!

[Bowcephalus]

I've noticed that on a windy day it's not unusual to be able to slip up on them later in the day like Elk D was talking about.....Got my first stalked whitetail that way.....suggested a noon "walk in the wind" to a buddy at work and the next week he said it worked to his suprise, and his buddies back at camp....killed a nice buck.......

[elkdreamer]

i hunt a lot on the ground after a good rain......clearing with a hard blow......their hearing sense is completely zeroed out at that point......i wear a ghillie top and move from travel spot to travel spot.......honey suckle patches later in the fall after a rain are like magnets.......work your way into them against the wind........i busted a deer on one of these a couple years back.....it blew but i noticed that it didn't crash out........so i blew back and rubbed my bow against a tree.......like antler rubbing.......i then snort wheezed [sp?].......and that deer came unglued trying to blow it's way towards me through the biggest of blackberry thickets.......i went to my knees and knocked an arrow and spent the next 10minutes listening to a deer breath......looking at the tops of a massive rack and seeing nothing else except four legs on the ground 10 yrds away......no body shot.....couldn't see a body.........he couldn't get to me and i couldn't shoot him.......he slowley backed away eventually and just left.......all the time thinking i was another buck.........love hunting them on the ground.........pick a windy clear day during that first week of heavy rut.......start at midday..........work your doe
bedding trails into the wind.......you will hear him comming .......they don't work these areas quietly.......they drag their feet almost and almost always grunt..........the closest i have killed one was at 3 feet.........i could see him comming and he was on the same trail as i........when he rounded the corner i was a full draw on my knees .......he looked up and i shot ............the all out run and then the big crash..........i'm much more in control on the ground then i am in a tree stand when i can watch a big one work to me........after all this time......i still can't stop the shaking when i know i'm going to try a shot in a tree stand.......guess when it happens ......i'll know that it's about over for me........... i killed a doe on the ground year before last.......hunting right after a hard rain........saw two does feeding and i worked into them......they turned and came onto me faster than i could make a shot......caught me at full draw and the stand off at ten yrds began.......well try holding 56 lbs as long as you can......i did let down to half draw while both of them looked at me ten yrds away........and of course you can tell when it's now or never and i started to redraw and the biggest doe turned to leave and i shot ........and i knew that i should not have done that.......she was leaving with an arrow flopping out of her ham and i'm really getting down on burgess big time for really doing a big stupid......finally decided to go get my arrow as i knew it was would have fallen out in the first couple arrows......really .....one of those shots you never talk about........i walked to where she was when she bolted....walked another 10yrds and there she was stone dead........i have never killed an animal that fell that close to the shot......i mean she's like dead dead..........cut that femeral artery and life is over in a blink.......not a pretty shot .......but .....sometimes..................sometimes during the rut i will work into the bedding areas late afternoon on foot.......just moving slowly...........do it a lot in marshes during the chase phase as you can hear them running through the reeds like tanks.........the does will blow by and the you hear reeds breaking and you think a full size bull is albout to run over your butt.......the racks get all tangled up in the marsh grass ........almost got run over by a monster last year on a marsh runway.........i was at full draw and new he was comming .........but when he saw this massive shape on the runway ......with eyes as big as pie plates........he just forgot all about getting laid and went airborne before i had a shot..............sorta messed up my day............the ghillie top and hip boots........turns you into a killing machine on the ground with a good bow..........b

[OZ in MT]

Steady, strong wind is one of the things that makes up for the lack of stalking cover in the west. Without it, we'd be in a world of trouble getting within bow range of anything out there, including our whitetails which display the same wisdom as they do east of the Mississippi. I've never taken a whitetail outside of 2 hours from either dusk or dawn (probably just lack of whitetail hunting time over the last several years) but have taken several very good (26" or better) mulies in the early afternoon using the western "spot and stalk." Two out of their beds.

[Bowcephalus]

This is good stuff, Elk and Oz......I think I might just set up this weekend with a camera........Gonna be hot though.....How y'all keep that ghillie out of anchor, and bowarm?........Looks like it would be a nightmare around the cheek and such......Even the pict on the 3R cat. looks sketchy........

[elkdreamer]

bowchep_____.......the one i'm using now is the ultralight in cabela's '06 archery cat......it's made by bush rag and i absolutely love it......i only have the jacket and that's all you really need with head cover......this is a very light ghille jacket .....very well made.......with a net foundation.....i untied a lot of the string on the bowarm and retied it elsewhere and used some of it for my headnet .......i pushed a lot of the string material so that it falls inside the netting on the bowarm side........i then pull a spandoflage gun barrel sock over the bowarm and form that point on......no shooting problems at all........bush rag [websight?] or cabela's have pants for this suit but since i wear hip boots ......no need for them.......i have found that with hip boots i am absolutely scentless as for as leaving senct behind at ground level.......never get busted with deer crossing my trail.....never.......i have also found that i can rest the lower limb inside my hip boot and hold the bow at upright ready with arrow knocked for a very long time........greatway to hold down the nerves while your waiting out the shot.........another thing i often do is drop a few raisons soaked in anise oil and vanilla where i want a deer to stop for a shot......just carry them in a small ziplock or old film canister.......just make sure your hand doesn't touch them.......will stop them head down everytime.....doesn't spook them.....just another ground fruit that they have never encoutered before.......the rest of course .....sometimes works ......sometimes it's a miss........

so oz..........we need a new thread by you........passing on some of that great sage elk and mule deer hunting that i have the sneaking feeling you are pretty awesome at.............stuff that one man and that western infinity gleans together over the years ..............strings up the trail...wrecks and all.........?????????????.........b

[Bob Palmer]

Burgess,
How does the new Ghillie compare to the one you used previously? I'm still shopping for one to use in the cutover pine patches!! I looked over my notes (finally entered the data in a spreadsheet for safe keeping when the mind finally fails) and I have only taken 7 deer with a bow with both feet planted on the ground...only one in a set up situation...and then I was only there ten full minutes over a hot scrape in the mountains of PA. But of those 7, they are certainly the most memorable...a 9pt I shot in his bed at 15 feet, a doe shot at the same distance, my 1st sika, a PA ridgerunner taken last fall...but, the most important to me was a 6 inch spike taken at midday while stalking through a standing cornfield...not my biggest by any stretch...but I took him eye to eye at a distance of 2 corn rows (that's a little less than 6 feet!!!) Never have I had the same rush as I did with that deer...not just from the close encounter but I'm also scared to death of cornfields :) !!!!

I can't wait to give BB's ground level hunting a try this fall!!! :youdaman:

[elkdreamer]

bob......this one..[the bush rag ] to me is much better than rancho safaries which cabelas' was selling last year......that one worked very well ......was a little heavier......the new one [this years ] is completely synthetic ......i went with the brown pattern......added some spray black lines.......i have found that a light brown will absorb surrounding colors and tones.....[it's why asat works so well].....darker camo [bush rag does come also in a darker pattern].......ends up being a dark black blob to much of the time.

i have found that wearing a ghillie and head cover.......lets you get away with some amazing movement in a tree stand where ordinary camo would have you busted no matter how high up you where.........they might catch you moving.......but the minute you freeze with the ghillie on.........they loose interest real fast with no panic......on the ground .......you can end up scaring yourself with a good ghillie........had another hunter walk by me one morning........he looked right at me at 3 yrds ........did not see me as a man......looked away and just hunted on.............i have no idea what he thought the bow was in my hand..........i did have it off the to the side and the fletching turned away from him.......but........

[OZ in MT]

Yeah, Dreamer, I've been thinking of an Out West hunting thread. Need to get Warf and some of the Montana guys plugged in to make it good. Will work on it.

[Bob Palmer]

So....uhhhh....Burgess....about this secret synthetic scent...how about a small quantity to field test out in Delaware this season....I'm looking for any edge I can get at this point!!!!! :) :) :) :)

[elkdreamer]

now bob..........i'll have a new batch ready by mid-august......i just keep playing.......had pretty good sucess with it last year.......you open on the first don't you.....?????????? will get some to you......b

[Bob Palmer]

...and now that Yohon and I are sharing a property, you'll have to keep it out of his grubby little paws :) :)

[Yohon]

Bob...Bob....I have a sample cooling in the fridge as we speak...B gave me some last winter but I am waiting on the new "batch" to have some more...those DE bucks will be dazed in testosterone, walking in circles drolling this fall :lol:

[elkdreamer]

just a sidebare on foodplots.........while i have a fair amount invested in expensive clover and soybean seed..........while trying to fill a crop permit the other night.......i had 19 deer feed down a ditch line between my expensive clover and my bobwhite beans............they where feeding on new growth tender weed shoots......weeds.......i keep the inbetween foodplots on the ditch banks cut close [about 4/6 inches] with a bush hog or the 955 deck.....the deck does a better job.........and every deer spent most of their feeding time on the weed patches.......it was almost dark before they migrated up to the beans...............keeping small meadows mowed .....or just spots in the meadow mowed.........is almost just as good as buying expensive seed and all the work that goes into that little project..........b

[Bob Palmer]

Hung two stands this am getting ready for the Sept. 1 opener....had 6 bucks cruise by while I was just finishing up the first one!!!

My buddy and I did a little mowing midday today to get some native re-growth and get the tops off the grass that has taken over some of our clover plots...with all this rain, we have had a great growing season. We also took a peak at some lespadeza and and honeysuckle patches coming up naturally...will hit with some 10-10-10 in about a week and get it going good for the fall growth.

Also need to roundup about four plots for a fall planting and then it will be time to hit the timber!!!

While out there, we checked on the mast crop and fruit crop....looks bumber to me! The white oaks should go off this year!!! Been fertilizing some stnads since '94...when they drop they drop BIG!!!!

[Bowcephalus]

I think the chlorophyl smell from the fresh cutting is what draws them.......I've seen the same thing with horses.......They will go to fresh cut over lush growth......

[elkdreamer]

I think the chlorophyl smell from the fresh cutting is what draws them.......I've seen the same thing with horses.......They will go to fresh cut over lush growth......

just might be something to that bowcep......remember that sweet smell of fresh chopped siolage [sp?] after you have it in the silo and it ferments for a couple days..........notice that deer really hit the clover when you take the tops off..........bob ....my sawtooth oaks are loaded this year.........one's gonna have to cover some ground just to keep a constant check as to what tree they are hitting.......here where i am.......this year there's gonna be so much food in the fall that it will be a hard hunt to pin the does down........but from the second wk in october..........that's what you better be doing........from then through the rut..........i hunt doe edges............just to hook up with whats trailing them.............find that one scrape close to the doe staging or bedding areas............usually it's an early afternoon on sit...........and like i said earlier.........after a blowing rain..........get there before the rain stops...........b

[OZ in MT]

I think you all are right on about the draw from the smell of fresh cuttings, both grass and the grain plants. I've seen it draw from coast to coast, and it happens pretty quick after the cutting starts.

Great thread, gentlemen; much enjoyment here!