Elevated rest and canting?

[Holmes]

Greetings,

When shooting from an elevated rest on a recurve, should one avoid canting the bow and adopt a more target-type stance? Or does it really matter?

Quite honestly, I find a target stance more comfortable and natural, much to the chagrin of my traditional friends. I do cant slightly, just enough to clear the string from my line of sight.

If I try to cant anything beyond perhaps 10 degrees, my release becomes a sloppy and my draw length is reduced. And, the bullseye becomes a fantasy!

I definitely shoot better from an elevated stick-on with minimal cant. Don't care if I don't look 'cool'.

What is the real benefit of canting outside of sight picture improvement and restricted hunting positions?

-Holmes

[jhinaz]

Which ever you do (vertical or canted) your bowstring should be drawn in a straight line, i.e. NOT torqued in a 'lazy-S' where you hook the string with your fingers. I've seen 'others' shoot with a vertically-held-head and a canted bow but when I shot with a canted bow I had to ALSO cant my head in order to keep the release-hand in a straight line with the string...... but I've been shooting with a vertically-held-bow for sometime now and it would feel awkward to go back to a canted bow. - John

[DAS]

Holmes,
Canting doesn't effect the elevated rest. When you are arrow tuning you should stay vertical though so that you can separate vertical / horizontal effects. In my experience, the more you cant, the harder it is maintain anything like proper form

[Stagmitis]

"What is the real benefit of canting outside of sight picture improvement and restricted hunting positions?"


You just named a couple very important attributes for hunting not target archery!. Unless of course one would wish to limit their opportunities to the controlled 20yd treestand shot.

Aerials, running targets, and shooting from unorthodox positions are all examples of why a hunting archer should cant. There is a pandoras box out there.


In terms of getting "In-line" that can be established regardless of which method is chosen and I beleive equal accuracy can be achieved from either one.


The other thing that "cant "does is further reduce the angle from the eye to to arrow. In effect it shrinks the gap making range estimation easier.

[Desert Archer]

I'm not a hunter, rather I'm a field archer and sometimes target shooter. I shoot an Olympic style recurve, barebow, and I cant a bit all the time. Out to 80 yards on the field course and as soon as I get some long, skinney target arrows all the way out to 90m (LOL).

To hold a bow straight up and down feels to me like I am straining to keep it there. A cant of just a few degrees is more comfortable and relaxed. I've been told you can't cant (sounds funny doesn't it) the same every time but I'm getting more and more consistant. Practice always seemd to help.

Dave

[Floxter]

One unfortunate aspect of canting is that it tends to shorten your draw length and makes it more difficult to achieve proper back tension.

[Bowcephalus]

I can hold a bow vertical and be more consistant with the bow position than if
I cant.....Canting 5 degrees,8 degrees,10 degrees,12 degrees I cannot be as consistant .....The effects of canting are magnified with an increase in rest elevation and target distance.....If I had to make a quick shot at a deer at close range, canting could work well....I have never shot a whitetail in a circumstance where I didn't have time to execute the shot well and made a kill with a canted snapshot......It's good to try several methods and then modify them to suit the circumstance....the more I try the more I learn.......

[Scooter]

Holmes,

Sounds like my style is more like yours. Upright target style posture but with a slight cant. I use an elevated rest and plunger and have not found any issues, despite what I have read in some books.

[James Wrenn]

I have no more trouble canting with a stick on rest as I do when shooting off the shelf.As long as the arrow is pointing in the right direction and the bow is tuned it will get where it is going regaurdless of bow position. :)

[Cato]

Interesting how different things work for different people.

I've shot a lot both ways. When I cant the bow, it is very moderate. When I do that, in contrast to what others have said, it feels easier to me to get the hand set in the grip properly (medium recurve style grip) and get the drawing arm elbow ALL the way back. It also seems a little easier for me to get good follow through. A slight cant just feels a little more relaxed for me. When I cant the bow, I do cant my head slightly , and still line the arrow with the string, or just to the side of it.

I do not expericence any noticable shortening of draw, but of course I cant very moderately.

As with DAS, I am careful to do all my bare shafting and tuning with the bow verticel.

Lots of really good shooters do it both ways.

[Bowcephalus]

Hank, how can the arrow possibly be a fulcrum? The point is if your bow arm is in a position relative to anchor, rotating the bow moves the point of the arrow away from the vertical plane. To bring it back you must realign the bow arm relative to anchor or turn the bow back to vertical.The same principle applies to the elevation above bore of a scope on a rifle.If you learn to do what you describe, I can see how the compensation can be made on the front end.The fulcrum is, by definition, always the point you are levering against.How does one lever against the arrow?When you shoot a scoped rifle do you cant it right and compensate by aiming to the left?(assuming you're right handed)...........

[Bowcephalus]

If the arrow WAS 6" above the hand it would take a helluv an adjustment in form to compensate for a heavily canted bow to be in the money at fifty yards.........

[Bowcephalus]

The best shooting form comes from a natural point of aim.....the human body by it's nature establishes this for you through your bone and muscle structure....The first step to establishing a good solid shooting platform is to determine the natural point of aim.If you're off, the muscles have to adjust for it and this leads to fatigue.........O.K. for one shot where necessary in a close hunting situation, but sucks in situations of multiple shots.........

[Bowcephalus]

Contortion is the enemy of consistency..............

[Bowcephalus]

You can make the arrow the aiming reference point but your hand is the fulcrum BY DEFINITION, because it is what you lever the bowlimbs against......I've never seen anyone draw a bow against the arrow.........

[Bowcephalus]

This brings up an interesting point.......Does anyone here gap and cant with an elevated rest?

[Bowcephalus]

Hank, your form must change with an increase in target distance,rest elevation, and cant............You agree?

[Bowcephalus]

Hank, Gotcha! It seems that a lot of folks read Fred's book and put way too much emphasis on the wrong things.....I.E. the benefits of a felt hat,plaid shirt,contorted form......I don't think he intended it that way.......

[Viper]

Hank -

BowC is right, the hand, actuallay the wrist has to be the fulcrum, and yes the further the arrow is away from the hand the greater they lateral deviation, when you cant. "technically". In reality, as long as the cant is relatively constant, then the brain is very good at compensating for the difference at normal ranges. Could a FITA / Olympic type shooting 70m or 90m, get away with it? Doubt it, but shooting around 40 yds, shouldn't be a problem. At least I haven't found it as such.

BowC -

I didn't think you COULD shoot traditionally without a felt hat and a flannel shirt, oh the humanity ... :cheers:

Viper out.

[Desert Archer]

Gotta sided with Hank here guys. Elevated rest or shelf. Straight up or canted. None of it matters to me because I look down the arrow shaft when I shoot. That arrow stays pointed at the intended target (maybe below it but still in line) and where the hand on the bow goes doesn't matter all that much.

I think it was Larry Hatfield who told us (I think it was here on Trad Talk) that Fred Bear said, with that long thing right there pointing at the target, why not use it to aim - or words to that effect.

Dave

[Viper]

Hand -

So a slight cant can't work on an outdoor NFAA round?

Yes it can, sorry, if I wasn't clear. That was sort of a joke, when I said FITA/Olympic I assumed sight shooters, and no, they can't cant ;).

If, as you said, the cant is consistant, and the anchor geometry, and you are capable of hitting at extended ranges, then you're good to go. Getting back to the FITA/Oly types, they pretty much always use clickers, as at extended ranges, almost any deviation is draw length can put you off the target. For most folks, changing the degree of cant can/will change the draw length slightly. That can be a problem if the cant isn't consistant.

Viper out.