tips to gain strength from a hard gainer

[dkicker]

These are some observations of mine when I am weight training. In case you don't know, a hard gainer is someone that dosen't gain strength via weight training as fast as normal. Here are the things i did and I started moving up the weights 5 lbs per week.

1> Try for mucle failure. This is when you try to lift and your muscle cannot lift anymore for the set. Ideally, this happens at the end of the last set. You will be able to use the muscle in a few minutes so its important to take a break.

2> Lift less times per week. I saw more results lifting 2 a week than 3/week. Training muscles mean you are tearing muscle fibers. When the muscle fibers heal, they heal stronger. Healing is when you get stronger, not when you train. Training starts the process, rest finishes it.

3> Make sure you eat some form of protien within 1.5 hrs after training. This just kick starts the healing process.

4> Sleep is when one does alot of healing. Have a small snack of protein and some carbs. Carbs are needed to properly disgest the protein and send it to where you want it, muscles.

5> Get a good nights sleep. I am going to harp on sleep again. I really feel that this is the first step to being healthy. I have found when I am well rested, I don't feel like eating for energy. I want to eat because I am hungry, not because I am sleepy.

[Legion Kreinak]

Sorry, wrong. Muscle failure does nothing conducive for size or strength. Here, read this website to learn everything:

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/table_of_contents_thread.htm

Funny, I lift three times per week per bodypart, and I'd say I'm pretty damn strong.

You don't need the protein post-workout, the benefit is honestly nominal. However, if you're going to worry about minor things, then you might as well be taking in the protein pre-workout with some dextrose. The pre-workout shake will be more beneficial than post. Throw some dextrose into the post-workout drink as well.

Carbs aren't needed to properly digest protein, what are you talking about? I guess my body never digested all that protein on the PSMF I did, right? You know, the diet involving nothing but protein with a brief period to drop weight quickly to make the cut for a weight class? Yeah, damn. All that protein went to waste. Wait a second... :p

Agreed - sleep is very important. Sleep and diet are very overlooked when training for anything. At least by newbies. I typically sleept 10 hours a night, when left alone. If I get any less, by the end of the week I start to feel buried.

[dkicker]

i did mention these are my observations and I don't know if u are a hard gainer. You might strengthen up very quickly. Not the case for me. Two hard workouts were better than 3 per week.

I will admit that the trainer that taught me the carb is probebly wrong. It was also about 5 years ago that I had him so I am sure more knowledge is available now.

Looks like i better get my p's and q's together before posting again ;)

[Legion Kreinak]

How do you train?

Five years ago that was well known. None of this stuff is revolutionary. Grimek did it back in the day. Training and diet have never been a mystery, except to the bodybuilding world.

[dkicker]

I used to find a gym and join. I got tired of the trainers that knew nothing. I also got bored of the routine. I now do activies that I am interested in. Bicycling and archery are the ways I train now. I also have some bands to work with when I want to up my strength for bow shooting.

For diet, I used http://www.mypyramid.gov/ I have lost at least 14 pounds and don't feel hungry all the time.

[Legion Kreinak]

Bands aren't really going to give you much strength unless (no offense here) you're pretty weak to begin with.

When I asked how you trained, I meant in terms of strength gain. Cycling & archery isn't conducive for strength. Do you do anything related to strength training?

Was your goal to lose weight in the first place? I don't trust the government when it comes to dietetics and nutrition - they've always been behind. Remember our old food pyramid? :rolleyes:

If you lose weight, and that was your goal, then that's good. Be aware that bodyweight can fluctuate a lot from one day to the next. Weigh yourself in the morning, hopefully in the same clothes, after going to the bathroom right when you wake up - same time. Be as consistent as possible. Even when doing this, I managed to weigh 8 lbs. less one day. Water weight can be very deceiving.

[dkicker]

my goal right now is to lose weight.

I had been overeating and the food pyramid is a way to watch what I eat. I have been on diets before that don't do anything but make me more obsessed with food. They may be behind but it doesn't have you buying their food every day.

I have seen water vary weight by 10 pounds so I have some pants that I fit into before I gained weight that I try on. They are fitting better.

[greenghost]

Single best piece of nutritional advice: Eat lean protein. Second best: eat lots of veggies. If you take those to points to heart, you will lose weight because you simply can't overeat lean protein and veggies. All right, maybe "can't" is too strong, but it is very, very hard. You will just fill up.

Protein has the highest satiety value of any of the macronutrients. It is also harder to digest, meaning you have to use more energy to digest it than you have to use to digest fats or carbs--so per gram protein packs fewer effective calories. Finally, it helps increase insulin sensitivity. Poor insulin sensitivity is what gives us all the beer belly.

Third best piece of dietary advice. Run sprints 3 times a week, don't waste your time for an hour on the treadmill. Here is the regimen: 5-10 minute warm-up (job/walk/skip rope/dance). Sprint all out 20 seconds/rest 10 seconds/sprint 20s/rest 10s/ ... Do 8 of these (Tabata) intervals. Cool down with a 5 minutes walk/jog. Total time: 14-19 minutes. Total effect: way better than an hour of slogging at a 10 minutes mile.

:2cents:

[Legion Kreinak]

Ghost got it right, definitely. My only clash with his post is the recommendation for sprints three times a week, simple because they're so taxing on the CNS. You'll basically be fighting for CNS resources if you're sprinting thrice weekly, along with lifting. Start with a session or two, and maybe cut down a bit of leg work at first. It's an individual thing of course, but you don't want to run yourself into the ground.

Also, Ghost, I haven't missed your other post asking for my routine, I've just been kinda jumping on and checking for two seconds and leaving. I go on like four or five forums, so with that and school + work it gets to be a pain. I'll PM you it, don't worry.

[dkicker]

Ghost got it right, definitely. My only clash with his post is the recommendation for sprints three times a week, simple because they're so taxing on the CNS.


what is CNS? (my ignorance factor is skyrocketing on this website) :p

[Legion Kreinak]

what is CNS? (my ignorance factor is skyrocketing on this website) :p

Central Nervous System.

[dkicker]

I dddddon't hhhhave a probbbblem IIII wiiiill beee okkkkkk :)

[Brian L]

Good luck with your training dkicker although I would definitely heed the advice of not always training to failure. In all actuality, I feel the term "hard gainer" gets tossed around a little too loosely. I've got numerous friends that swear they're hard gainers yet it usually always boils down to they're not eating enough, not training correctly, or both.

A solid program for many programs that I recommend is WSB. Check it out here: http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/archive/articles_westside.htm

I'm a big believer in many of Chad Waterbury's programs as well and would recommend researching some of his articles.

On an ending note, learn and become proficient with compound exercises; squats, deadlifts, bench press, and cleans. This should be a staple in your program. In all honesty, I think movements such as these should be a staple in anyone's program regardless of the goal. Unfortuantely there is so much misinformation out there, especially via uneducated personal trainers, concerning big body movements.

Good luck.

[Cato]

I am 55 yrs old, in decent shape. I am 6'2" tall, and only weight about 177 lbs. I have very little body fat, and am aerobically fit. However, my physical strength has declined over the last 10 yrs. I quit lifting about 10 yrs ago due to rotator cuff problems in both shoulders. I am now trying to get back into lifting, moderately. I cannot do bench presses, at least not a full rep, due to the shoulders.

Presently, I am doing more reps of lighter weights. My main goal is to get the strength level back up in my uppper body. Can anyone make any suggestions as to what type excercises I can do primarily directed at getting my strength level back up?

Thanks
Cato

[Legion Kreinak]

Do you have insurance? If so, look for a provider of ART (Active Release Technique) in your area. Anyone with RC problems does well to visit one of these specialists.

Bench presses aren't necessary for anything. In fact, slight inclines tend to be better for most people, especially due to the minimal strain on the shoulder girdle. Flat benches stress the RC immensely.

You can do any exercises to get your strength levels up. Stay away from machines, as they don't give much in way of functional strength. Stick with free weights, focus on progressive loading (i.e., adding weight to the bar) and proper form. When you feel comfortable with a weight, increase it a bit and just have a target amount of sets and reps you wish you hit before increasing again.

How strong do you want to be, exactly?

[Brian L]

I agree pretty much with the above mentioned advice. If you have shoulder problems, go ahead and nix flat barbell bench from your program and use incline barbell, decline barbell, or flat dumbell instead.

If you'd like to gain strength, stick with your money compound exercises; deadlifts, squats, etc. I noticed that you said you want to mainly increase your strength in your upper body; please don't make the pitfall of neglecting leg work.

You might want to check out the book "Starting Strength". A very good book for anyone interested in strength training. You can find it at Amazon.

[greenghost]

Cato, hope all is well.

Obviously, you should double check with a physician if you have rotator cuff problems. You've probably done that, already, though.

I would stay away from bench presses entirely--not worth it as LK noted.

I am of the opinion that "spot" training, like "spot reducing", is usually a mistake. Compound movements like the deadlift, back squat, front squat, overhead squat, and thruster will help build your core body strength and have positive effects on your upper body strength. (Don't think of squats or deadlifts as leg exercises,think of them as core body exercises.) For one thing, these exercises produce the biggest anabolic reaction (Insuline-like Growth Factor). If you are going to do a standard weight workout say twice a week I would choose one of those exercises each time to start off and do a 5x5 group.

After having done one of these core body exercises I would choose some assortement of the following: bent rows (or row machine), lat pull-downs, OH presses, pull-ups, push-ups, dips, back extensions, and sit-ups/crunches (there might be a few others I am not thinking of off-hand). These are also mostly multi-joint exercises and they will give you a pretty effective upper body workout. Unless you are wanting to look really huge, two 30-45 minutes workouts per week with some selection of those exercises will give you all the functional strength you will want. Don't rest too long between sets, don't always do the same routine (same exercises or same % of max).

Ocassionally, mix some body weight exercises in with high intensity anaerobic exercises. For instance, sprint 20 seconds, do 10-15 pushups, rest 10 seconds, sprint, push-ups, rest, ... Do 6-8 reps of that and you will be blown out and much stronger for it. Or mix jump rope with pull-ups. Or mix box/stair jumps with sit-ups. You get the idea.

Best, Marc

[greenghost]

I wanted to add.

Lighter weights have a place in metabolic conditioning (IMO), but won't do much to produce gains in stength. For stength, you probably need to do about 80% max effort (you should be able to push that out at 5x5 with progressive loading as the sets get easier). You lmight also try a suggestion by Art DeVaney--what he calls alactic training. Do about 90=95% max effort lifts in set of 1-1-1-1-1 with a 10-20 second rest in between. Think of that as one set (not 5 sets of one). The rest give you just enough time to recharge but you won't go to muscle failure. This allows you to recruit most of your fast twitch muscle fibers without overtraining concerns. (I will see if I can find DeVaney's post on this and link to it.)

The key is that more is not better. Keep your work-outs functional and short (under 45 minutes and often under 30 minutes). You hae more important things to do with your time than sit around the gym.

[Cato]

To each of you,

Thanks for taking the time to do a little coaching. Your advice is well received.

LK and Brian,

At this point, I just want to regain enough strength to feel confident and be able to do the outdoor things I have always done. I am not trying to reach any specific level. Presently, I struggle with any traditional bow of over 50#. I would like to see some improvement there. But mainly, I just want to be able to continue to lift things in the normal course of life without strength issues. So its a little hard to quantify how strong I wish to be, but hopefully that gives you an idea.

LK,

What is the Active Release Technique? Who should I expect to be able to provide that? A doctor?

GG,

When I see your posts, I think of your child, and try to stop and pray for her. I hope she is doing as well as possible. I suspect you will be an expert in all of it before much longer. :)

Yes, I have seen a Doc and a PT about the rotators. And they are getting better. The goal is to rehab them without surgery. One side is in pretty good shape. The other is sort of up for grabs. My Dr is a sports guy (he lifts) so his thoughts are to rehab if possible, and cut as a last resort. HOwever, his main goal is to get me a funtional as I want to be.

I am presently doing lat pulls and seated rows on a machine. I also have been doing seated benches; but with a machine I can control the depth of the drop so that it doesn't hurt the shoulders. The Dr insists that a full bench allowing the bar to touch the chest is an absolute NO No. I am also doing some standard exercises specifically directed at the rotators.

The shoulders feel a little tentative, so I am taking it slow. However the advice from all of you about doing a little heavier weight and less reps will become a goal.

Thanks for the help guys.

[Legion Kreinak]

http://www.activerelease.com/

Check out HST - great program to follow, probably the safest route and will work just as well as anything for size and strength.

www.hypertrophy-specific.com

[jgbennett6]

Central Nervous System...............Legion.....what do you do for work?.......and lifting muscle groups 3x/ week?..you trying to cut up?....

[Legion Kreinak]

Central Nervous System...............Legion.....what do you do for work?.......and lifting muscle groups 3x/ week?..you trying to cut up?....

What do you mean "what do I do for work"? What relevance does that have to this discussion?

Why would you extrapolate "cutting up" from training 3x a week? Sounds like you've got a lot to learn. Cutting should have nothing to do with your training schedule, really. Calories in vs. calories out, law of thermodynamics.

[jgbennett6]

listen those were all valid questions, dont get your little thong in a bunch again, haha trust me i;ve got nothing to learn, especially from you or anybody that use the word pwnage!! hahaa... just curious, i thought you said that you lift each muscle group 3X a week..is that true?...trust me i know all about thermodynamics......I took Physics and Kinesiology on my way through med school hoss!

[Legion Kreinak]

listen those were all valid questions, dont get your little thong in a bunch again, haha trust me i;ve got nothing to learn, especially from you or anybody that use the word pwnage!! hahaa... just curious, i thought you said that you lift each muscle group 3X a week..is that true?...trust me i know all about thermodynamics......I took Physics and Kinesiology on my way through med school hoss!

If you think the leg press can compare to the squat, you certainly do have something to learn.

Yes, 'cause saying "pwnage" has anything to do with the amount of knowledge someone holds.

Man, you're awesome!!