Focus/Concentration

[Pinelander]

I've seen a few discussions of late about focus and practicing. There seems to be two schools of thought on this -
1) shoot one arrow at a time, retrieve after each shot... don't shoot too frequently.
2) not opposed to shooting groups of arrows... prefer shooting as much as possible.

The #1 group tends to be those that are hunters only. Some refuse to shoot groups of arrows at targets and advocate stump shooting and 3-D shoots as the best way to be prepared for the hunt.

The #2 group tends to be those that hunt, but also enjoy target shooting. These folks advocate target practice as a way to refine the mechanics of form, aiming, release, etc. and is beneficial for being prepared to hunt as well.

Let me qualify my curiosity on this subject -
My intentions were to improve my shooting form, aiming method, and release mechanics. I have successfully hunted with recurve for many years shooting "instinctively"... practicing mostly by shooting groups at targets, some stump shooting and 3-D shoots as well. I'm beginning to wonder if I'm really missing something about this one-shot focus method. It seems there is a disproportionate amount of trad hunters that advocate the one-arrow efficiency method opposed to those that target practice.

My question is this - Is there a chance that my focus/shooting ability when hunting will be lessened by continuing or even escalating my time on the target butt?

And yes... you can say "If ain't broke, don't fix it". But honestly, I'm beginning to believe that having an 18 yard limitation when hunting whitetails is not what I'd call running on all 8 cylinders. Ok... I'm going to go watch Bambi on a new DVD with the family now. :D

[DAS]

Piney,
When I practice I shoot 6 to 8 arrows at a time but I always try to make every shot a separate event, not effected by what I just did or what I might do. I try to avoid hitting a groove except where form is concerned. I shoot from different positions and ranges with each arrow. In the end you should still have a group though. The kill zone is the kill zone regardless. With that routine I am pretty proficient out to 40 yards. I don't know if that helps but it works for me.

[Bob Gordon]

Not trying to slam anyone who only shoots one arrow at a time but the only advantage I can see for shooting that way in practice is that you won't shoot any nocks off and you get to do a lot of walking. Most who shoot only one arrow tend to not to shoot very far back from the target as a rule as who wants to walk back 40 yds, shoot one arrow and walk 40 yds to get it. I always shoot 5 arrows at a yardage and strive for well centered, round groups, if you can shoot your first arrow as well as your last your in good shape and not overbowed. A bad shot out of the group stands out and you will remember it longer and try not to do it again. Also in the time you have to shoot you will shoot many times more arrows that you would doing it one at a time and I believe this is good practice as well as excercise for the old body. I try to shoot 100 arrows per day, that's only 20 trips to the target, I would get burned out with shooting if I had to do 100 trips per day. I have a pretty good 3-D course on my place and that of course is my one arrow per target thing. To say that shooting more than one arrow at a time and that doing more or shooting groups will hurt your hunting skills is like saying that a trap shooter who runs 100 rounds thru his Berretta each weekend will make him a lousy duck hunter, ain't gonna happen....warf

[Holmes]

I start each session by 'shooting the bale' with my eyes closed. I'm new to the sport and trying to develop my form. This really helps me get into archery mode. One arrow' two paces from the bag.

Next step is 2 shot volleys at varying distances, 10-35 yards for my indoor set-up. Volleys are launched at different spots on the bags or different hanging tennis balls at each range. Time span is about 45 minutes.

When trying to learn at the 25 yard+ distances, I will often shoot 5 shot volleys as I have little fear of damaging one of my arrows at that range!

If I start to throw arrows wild I take one arrow and go back to the 'bale' for a few minutes.

Most of my practice takes place in my shop at the end of the business day. If its been a booger of a day, my archery will sometimes suffer. On those occasions I put up the bow, go home and romp with the dogs, and then immerse myself in a good 19th century book :sbrug:

-Holmes

[Pinelander]

Oh brother... I forgot how damnifying that movie was in regard to the evil human hunters. LOL

.... I always try to make every shot a separate event, not effected by what I just did or what I might do.
That is a very good thought and I think that is what some of those in group #1 feel very stongly about. IF an archer can do this when shooting groups, such a routine may not be detrimental to focus/concentration.

Holmes - I wish when I had first started barebow archery, I would have been as fortunate as you to have that kind of shooting environment. Sounds like you're definitely on the right track and using your facility to it's utmost potential.

Bob - You spoke of being overbowed. Even though I didn't mention it, that's a big factor in my question about target shooting and how it may affect my hunting preparedness. I really enjoy practicing long sessions using the 40# limbs. I've gotten so used to holding longer, getting lined up, refining my form and release.... I've started to wonder if there might be transitional problems going to the 50# limbs. So far I've not noticed any and have actually seen improvement at longer distances with the faster bow... must be getting that gap down a bit better now. ;)

[Torsten]

I normally do not shoot groups often.

Group shooting on the other hand could be an advantage for me because I have the problem to not concentrate on each shot with the same intensity.

The first is normally a full hit and then something inside relaxes and the flyers come. When I restart concentrating again normally full hits come back.

Well I learned this now.

The bad part is the nocks ' gone with the wind' and robin hoods.

I need several weeks to get new arrows when ordering from USA and lots of hassle.

During stump shooting the single shot method is definitively the only economical solution. You definitively have to follow through and get this damn arrow before you were following through with other arrows and wonder where the h*** the first stick went.
It also improves the 'single chance philosophy'.

Happy hunting for all.

[Pinelander]

"and then something inside relaxes and the flyers come."

I often hear people say... "rel-a-a-x and then everything will come together". Yeah right, I start shooting flyers when I get too relaxed and concentration starts wandering. I guess there is a balance of concentration/relaxation that works... I just don't know much about Zen and stuff like that to understand it all. It's definitely a mental thing, regardless if shooting one arrow groups or 5 arrow groups.

Nice to have you over here, Torsten. There are some other archers from England (Steve Morley, Phil, and Eaglearcher) that hang around some... they may know of arrow sourcing that's a bit less of a hassle than what you're experiencing now.

[Eaglearcher]

Torsten.

Greetings from England.
I was lucky enough to visit Finland a couple of years ago when you hosted E.F.A.C. and had a great time. What a beautiful country. I understand that you are hosting the 2006 E.F.A.C. too, and I am looking forward to coming back.
On the subject of getting arrows. Let me know what you use and i will ask around the suppliers that I use and see if they will export to Finland for you. As we are both in Europe, i imagine that it will be a bit easier than the States.
If you let me have your details i can send you the website details of the shops that are willing to help.

[Limbwalker]

Piney,

Most of the "one arrow at a time" advocates have a very good reason for doing this. They don't want to know how their groups might look.

If you want the best of both worlds, then shoot a multi-spot target. That way, each shot is on it's own bullseye, but you can shoot several at a time before you have to go pull.

I for one will tell you that shooting paper and writing down scores has made me a MUCH better shot on game.

John.

[steve morley]

I suspect the archers who insist on shooting just one arrow find it hard to group or just don't want to see any wild arrows.

I'ts much easier to gather the focus required for just one shot, the trick is to shoot groups of 3-4 arrows, but shoot them with the same focus as the one arrow only guys.

My practice sessions are a two stage process, the first is setting myself up by conciously breaking down and checking each stage of my form, once this is done I move on to the second stage which is shooting with very high levels of concentration and focus, it's important to remember that if you have any internal dialect in your head you're NOT concentrating (if things go wrong I shoot a couple of shots as stage one to get back on track and the same rules apply in tourneys).

Many sports psycologists call this 'being in the Zone' being in the Zone means shutting down all the higher brain functions (easy for me as I have no higher brain functions :) ) many top sport performers find it hard to recall exact events because of this. when I shoot well, everything feels so effortless and my mind is so clear from everyday clutter.

To reach the 'Zone' you first have to reach a certain level with your shooting form, but once passed this stage you should be able to swich on that concentration and focus at will.

[Pinelander]

Steve and John,

I suspect you're referring to this type of mindset -

"one arrow dead center in a bullseye looks a whole bunch better than 1 in the bullseye and 4 somewhere else. That aint going to build up no ones confidence. You don't shoot 5 arrows at no deer so it don't make no sense to shoot 5 arrows at no target."

[Bowcephalus]

Who shoots more than one at a time?...............I like to shoot arrows,if I retrieve after each shot I will shoot less.........If I was a terrible shot without the will to improve I would only shoot one a day.........Naw I'd rather shoot lots of arrows at lots of target types at lots of distances........The more I shoot the better I get at mental seperation of each shot.........

[Cato]

Bottom line is that shooting good groups is harder. But if you can shoot good groups, you prove to yourself you have the concentration and form to shoot well. It builds your confidence, which in turn helps relax you (less anxiety about the whole process) . At least that's how it seems to me.

Steve, I am reading the book you recommended. Thanks.

[Pinelander]

BowC - years ago, just for fun I would nock two arrows, canted quite a bit, and left 'em fly! What a blast! :eek:

Neither one hit where I was aiming though, imagine that.

[Bowcephalus]

Pine if I was going to do that I'd have to screw in a couple of those big fluffy shotgun bore cleaners dip 'em in lighter fluid and flame on!......After dark of course.....

[woodnbow]

:) I gotta try that! Thanks for the idea!

[Heathen]

While trying real hard to concentrate shooting groups today, my Labador decided to go investigate what the neighbors were doing. He liked to bowled me over since I make him sit beside me when I practice. Shot a perfectly good arrow into the side of my storage shed and I ended up on the ground.
Make sure when in full concentration mode that you don't have a nosey dog beside you. :)

Jim

[Grizzly]

I always enjoy the mind threads. Most of us know that we cant blame it on the equipment anymore. Like, what else could we buy that would shoot any better.

I also favor the groups. One arrow is neat, but to be able to maintain focus well enough to put 2, 3, 4 or that ellusive 5 into the bull, requires that we do something right. By reinforcing our concentration level, we actully strengthen our ability to perfom better under hunting stress. I havent read Byron yet, but when I get my mind behind the arrow and guide it in, magic happens. That connected feeling is a real high, and it feels just as good, whether it's shooting arrows, observing answered prayer or just doing anything right in life, when we stay focused on the job at hand. I sometimes think the lessons we learn shooting and hunting, carry over very well into the art of living life better.

[Bowcephalus]

There is also a particular gratification of a certain type of audio feedback I have experienced when the arrows are sinking center.....they don't make a sound hitting the soft center part of the worn block....

[Torsten]

Eaglearcher, (and please limb walker see a comment intended to be very friendly below)

Many thanks for your offer.

I just got my latest dz. on C.E. terminator select shafts 60/75 full length and I am happy at the moment (burried one in 2' snow already).

For later on I would highly appreciate an idea for cheaper shafts and accessories of the same type for this arrow: I paid 140€ a dz with some fuzzy feathers, 1/3 right wing 2/3 right wing. Is this a blondie-arrow?

I would be really happy if you could give me a contact in UK. The one I have is Alternative Sporting Services, their price will be around 80 something without feathers. In U.S. they cost around $ 60 including shipment. I loose a lot of arrows in the snow.


P.S. Limb walker: you may get a photo of my wife but I have a problem to give to give you 'group photo of her....'

[Papabull]

You only ever need to shoot one arrow at a time. More than that will definitely mess you up. It might have looked cool in the movie "Robin Hood, Men in Tights", but it's not all that practical to have that many arrows on your bowstring at one timel.

After shooting about six arrows into the target, one at a time, I walk up and examine the results. When I'm seriously practicing for hunting, a group is very important to me because I look at the group of 5 or 6 arrows and the one that is most off the mark is the one I use to gauge my shooting.

Shoot 2 dead center in the bullseye and miss with the other three by 6 inches and 8 inches respectively and that should tell an archer that his chances of missing a deer completely or wounding it with a non-fatal shot are very high - 60%.

I know some folks are not going to like this, but it's the truth. If most of an archer's shots are well off the mark, the dead center bullseye is just another errant arrow that was blessed by the law of averages with a good result.

Shooting one arrow and walking up to the target allows an archer to feel good about his shooting when he inevitably gets a fortunate miss (bullseye). I've seen a lot of archers with this mindset miss repeatedly before hitting a "kill" in the target and then exlaiming, "YEAH, that's a dead deer! Now THAT'S how it's done!".

In order to accurately evaluate how well and how prepared an archer really is, he has to consider every shot he takes to be representative of his shooting; not just the shots he felt good about. And that's where shooting one arrow and then pulling often gets people messed up. It's just the way the mind works. You want to be a good shot, so your mind works hardest to remember the good shots. The flyers fade away as though they never happened an an archer can end up being seriously overconfident in his ability. That is not a good thing in the hunting woods.

[Torsten]

PapaBull, you spoke right out of my heart or should I say out of my bow:

- I have not participated in forums for too long and must say that you really get a chance here to run over our latest day experience and can work it out with others..

- What refers to the groups I must admit that I have a lousy attitude towards the follow up on the run.
It refers to air gun shooting, rifle shooting (heavy rifle is better bcause I concentrate on the heavy guys) and archery.

- At the moment I am lacking the chance to go out and have a few dozends of shots with any weapon per day.

-I recognized that when I am committed to hit the next shot, I concentrate 1 -2 seconds longer and hit. Full. When the concentration eases out, the shot is faster ---- and somewhere.

After all I would like to express my confusion about how many words we are investing in such a 'simple movement' and how difficult it is to find out that the other is trying to say exactly the same.

[bowshooter74]

both have there benefits, but id have to agree with Bob