View Full Version : ??for Jawge & Greek Orthodox church
Camp Cook
04-04-2005, 06:15 PM
Ever since you told us you were Greek Orthodox I have been wanting to ask you if the church still practices triune immersion baptism. My church does & I've been told it is historically the method that was used...so I am just curious.
Thanks, JOY :)
George Tsoukalas
04-04-2005, 06:27 PM
Yes, my Church baptizes in the name of the Father and of the Son of the Holy Spirit by immersion. Mum always blamed the priest for my fear of water. :) Jawge
Camp Cook
04-04-2005, 07:20 PM
Thanks. I thought that was so but have always wanted have it verified by someone who was Greek Orthodox...Unfortunately, I personally, have only crossed paths with one other greek & that was only briefly, years ago. It's a pleasure to meet you. :) and to verify what I was told was valid. :highfive:
George Tsoukalas
04-05-2005, 01:16 PM
Nice to meet you too. Jawge
WildmanSC
04-05-2005, 01:45 PM
That is the ONLY scriptural baptism.
Bill Lamb
That's how Mormons baptise too.
Camp Cook
04-05-2005, 03:18 PM
I am truly surprise....I though it was only us. :)
George Tsoukalas
04-05-2005, 05:58 PM
Mormons don't see the Trinity as Christians do. Jawge
Right we see them as three seperate beings, one in purpose.
Bill McNeal
04-06-2005, 04:15 AM
Right we see them as three seperate beings, one in purpose.
Right, and your "church" teaches that God was a man, that Jesus is the brother of Lucifer, that there is a "Heavenly Mother", practices proxy Baptism.......................
Yes, we do. But you forgot to mention that we also beleive you and I are brothers of both Jesus and Lucifer. It's because we beleive we are literaly sons and daughters of a living God. And that this earth isn't the beginning of our lives but the middle. You and I have bodies and live here becuase when Satan rebelled against God we fought on Gods side and helped to drive him and his angels out of heaven. We kept our first estate now we are here on Earth to see if we will keep our second estate.
Bill McNeal
04-06-2005, 01:07 PM
Sorry Matt, but you and I are not Brothers, and My Lord is not Lucifers Brother.
Larry Hatfield
04-06-2005, 02:32 PM
matt, it is very interesting to me to view religion from your perspective. i knew/know very little about the morman faith and have found over the years that real discussions about the various ways we as a human family worship our god holds great value.
i hope DISCUSSIONS such as this remain on this site! while i hold my belief values to myself, i enjoy reading most views that people such as you care to share.
someone said once that if all people thought alike, then nobody would be thinking very much. i hope never to see that day come!
larry
Larry,
Thanks for that. Most everyone has been very gracious to me on this new site. I know that almost everyone here does not agree with me or my religion. I'm glad I'm alowed to take part anyway. It is very appreciated.
Bill,
I'm hurt :sbrug: , well sort of. I don't think your very Christian either. At least we have somethig we agree on! :highfive:
Bill McNeal
04-06-2005, 08:04 PM
Matt, its really nothing personal. You are my fellow human being, and you are Created in the image of God, and I love you, as God commands me to love you. You just are not my Brother in Christ. You profess that The Lord Jesus Christ is a brother of Lucifer. That is why we are not Brothers.
*** But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. ***
You shouldn't have to be commanded to love me. If you have the spirit of Christ with you, which you say you do, you'd come by that love naturally. Never-the-less, I consider you my brother. No matter how you feel about me ,or what I think about how you treat others that don't share your ideals. That's the truth too. There's much more to being Christian than saying "I beleive in Christ". If you beleive in Christ, truly beleive in Christ, you will act like Christ did/does. He loved everyone, unconditionaly. Remember that's the second greatest commandment.
Esquire
04-06-2005, 10:06 PM
Matt,
I have some very good friends who are now, or once were, Mormons. I have read some of your (Mormon) books and histories. I have also read your (Matt) post on 3d shooting. In a few weeks I will score myself for the first time, as I shoot my second ever 3d course ever. It should be nice and humbling! Perhaps we can improve together.
In the meantime, I look forward to discussions within this forum. Welcome back. :)
Mike
Matt,
Ditto Mike. While I disagree with the Mormon theology at points I consider very important, it does not mean your presence is not welcome. Nor does it mean I will not think about your comments. I may try to win you over to my viewpoint ( :)) , but I will hope to do so in a congenial way.
Its good to see you back out here.
Cato
Bill McNeal
04-07-2005, 04:36 AM
You shouldn't have to be commanded to love me. If you have the spirit of Christ with you, which you say you do, you'd come by that love naturally. Never-the-less, I consider you my brother. No matter how you feel about me ,or what I think about how you treat others that don't share your ideals. That's the truth too. There's much more to being Christian than saying "I beleive in Christ". If you beleive in Christ, truly beleive in Christ, you will act like Christ did/does. He loved everyone, unconditionaly. Remember that's the second greatest commandment.
Matt, loving ones neighbor is a command of my Lord. Love does not come natural to men. The heart of man is corupt, and beyond repair. If man were capable of "natural" love there would be no need for Christ. While it is true that Jesus Loves everyone, for a father cannot hate a child, It is also true that the Same God who is Jesus Christ also has condemed many to eternal death, for He is the Sovereign. He is the Merciful, and the Hardener.
With that said. The reason you are not my Brother is very simple. You do not know Who Jesus is. If you did you would not call Him the Brother of Lucifer. Now does that mean that all Mormons are not my Brothers. Not at all. Many in the Mormon cult are head captive by the corupt teachings of men, just like many are held captive in the Catholic cult and simply need to be shepherded away from the wolves.
You on the other hand are a false teacher of Mormonism. Your desire is not to fellowship with the sheep, but rather to create goats out of them. What you fail to realize is that you cannot. For the sheep of the Good Shepherd are held in His Pasture. If one wanders off, He goes, and brings them back and rejoices.
Among His Elect Body he has called Elders, of which are Pastors whose sole purpose is to protect the Flock from the ravenous wolves that abound. While many of the sheep themselves will unknowingly invite the wolves in to play, and feed among the Flock, the shepherd is wise, and sees the wolves coming.
Shalom
Bill,
You can't deny me my faith. I know it's true. I think your the false teacher leading the sheep astray. Not because your not Mormon either. I don't think you have to be a certain religion to teach truth. It's because you preach hate and try to cover it in a Christ like veil. So where do we go from there? I can't convince you and you will never convince me.
I guess the only thing we can do is let each live there own life, and be respectul to them. It's what we're supposed to do.
I wish I had more time to post further, but I have to go. Don't know when I'll be back. See you around.
Bill McNeal
04-07-2005, 08:11 AM
Matt, teaching that Jesus Christ is the Sovereign Lord, and that I, and you, and everyone were created to Glorify Him is NOT hate. Now, if that teaching counters your religous "faith", then you can easily call it "hate". Preaching that sodomy is sinful in America today often will earn the preacher of Christ the "hate" label also. I have been called "hateful", and "devisive" by heathen women , who heard me preach that the "man is the head of the woman". They ignore the other part where I claim {According to Gods Word} that the husband is also to love his wife as himself.
You see Matt, I am just a Christian who does not concern himself with being popular, liked, or politically correct. Jesus told me that I could except to ridiculed, set aside, and mocked for taking up His Cross, and following His Teaching. That is why I will plainly rebuke the Mormons as a cult that is not Biblical, and is based on the teachings of criminal, and a mad men like Joseph Smith, and Brigham Young. Will such a statement cause controversy, or lead to me losing worldly influence, and prestige?...........For me to know what I know about people like you, and not to rebuke you is sinful. I have had people from this forum privately thank me for saying to you, what they could not, or would not say to you.
They should really thank God, because His Word is what exposes you.
Camp Cook,
Sorry for hijacking your thread. I didn't intead for that to happen. It's over now.
Camp Cook
04-07-2005, 09:02 PM
Matt
No problem. I wasn't expecting it to take the turn it did. Usually in my circle of friends, when baptism comes up it is usually a discussion on 3 times forward versus 1 time backwards :) which also can be a lively discussion.
I trust we will be able to learn from each other.
What do you mean by 3 time forward and 1 time backard? How many times you go under the water? If so, what does that symbolise or how did that come about. That's interesting.
Camp Cook
04-08-2005, 03:57 AM
3 times forward is what is generally referred to as "triune" immersion. It comes from the greek word "baptizo" (sp?) that is used in the NT. It means to "dip" repeatedly, i.e. more then once. Scripture says we are to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. hence 3 times. Forward because scripture says were are to baptize in like manner of His death - "He bowed his head & gave up the Ghost".
1 time backward is the more common mode used today. It is when you are laid backwards under the water and only one time, though the same "phrase is used". It is signifying that our past life is "buried".
We also do communion differently in that we practice what is called 3-fold communion which is a wonderful celebration of the past, present and future ministry of Christ. But that is another topic :)
Hope that explains it. I would be happy to answer any other questions you have.
JOY :)
Well don't leave me hanging! Tell me about the 3 fold communion.
Bill McNeal
04-08-2005, 07:21 PM
There are the baptismal rituals created by men, and practiced by them, then there is the Truth of Holy Scripture. The two should never be confused.
Shalom!
Camp Cook
04-09-2005, 05:43 PM
Matt,
Sorry I didn't respond to you sooner but we were out of town running an archery range for a kids day put on by Pheasants Forever. Had 375 kids participate.....we are just a bit tired. :)
Three-fold communion had 3 parts to it, each part is representative of part of the ministry of Christ, past, present & future.
The 3 parts are:
THe footwashing, The Love Feast and The Communion of the Bread & Cup.
I will explain each part.
The Footwashing (John 13:1-17) is representative of the present ministry of Christ in our life. While we are secure in our salvation, we still sin & & need to seek His forgiveness daily. THe men with the men & the women with the women gently bathe each others feet & dry them with a towel. During this time we sing hymns.
The Love Feast (I Corinthians 11:20-22, 33-34 and Jude 12) is representative of the future ministry of Christ, i.e. heaven & the Marriage Supper of the Lamb & all Heaven has to offer. We have a simple meal together and a time of praise & testimonies as to what God is doing in the lives of His people.
THe Communion of the Bread & the Cup (I Corinthians 11:23-26) is representative of the Past Ministry of Christ when His body was broken & His blood was shed. This part of the service is much like what is done in other churches with unleaven bread (ours is slightly sweet & contains no yeast) & grape juice (wine).
It is a wonderful & very meaningful service.
:) JOY
Bill McNeal
04-09-2005, 07:18 PM
***I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel– which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! ***
vBulletin® v3.8.5, Copyright ©2000-2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.