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gurn
04-14-2011, 05:46 PM
The letter my boy sent to the Michigan Governor concerning the CWD bait ban put in place ah few years ago, from his Traditional Hunter / Biologist
point ah view.


Ever since the days of President Theodore Roosevelt, individuals with a passion for wildlife have dedicated their lives to protecting and improving the sustainability of the very species they so greatly enjoyed harvesting. From the simple act of purchasing a hunting license to devoting one’s academic and professional life to conservation, hunters, as a whole, have committed more time and dollars to protecting the wildlife we all enjoy than any other interest group to date. This endeavor, from day one, has been challenged by political opinions, social trends and even bickering conservationists. First and foremost, I would like to urge you, as a resource manager, to wholly consider your position as a public servant and acknowledge your obligation to use “the best science available” to uphold the Public Trust Doctrine.



SCIENCE



Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD). The baiting ban was put in place due to an incident where a farm raised white-tailed deer in Kent County, Michigan tested positive for CWD. Because of this, the state’s CWD response plan was executed; triggering a string of previously determined measures to help minimize the potential spread of this disease, which included a ban on all baiting in the Lower Peninsula. Shortly after this ban took effect, the Wildlife Division of the Michigan Department of Natural Resources (MDNR) spent thousands of dollars, during a time of limited funding, to conduct a study with the primary goal of determining whether or not CWD had infected the wild or captive white-tailed deer population, and if so to what degree. After statistically significant sampling (over 32,500 white-tailed deer tested to date), no wild or captive cervids were found to be infected with CWD. The “best science available” was utilized, and test results clearly concluded that the disease had not infected Michigan’s white-tailed deer herd. It is the responsibility of the Wildlife Division of the MDNR and the Natural Resources Commission (NRC) to act on these highly expensive and conclusive test results. As public servants and state resource managers, you are obligated to make decisions using the “best science available” to protect Michigan’s ecosystem. Every decision made, small or large, should be evaluated, heavily considering the public trust. Test results clearly concluded that CWD is not threatening the sustainability of the white-tailed deer population in Michigan, thus the precautionary measures associated with the CWD response plan are no longer needed at this time.



Population Density. An actual threat to Michigan’s white-tailed deer herd is population density. Various studies have shown that the white-tailed deer population is at a dangerously high level and expanding each year. High population density within any species can lead to disease outbreaks. The “best science available” is pointing to a reduction in the white-tailed deer population, not a ban on baiting. With that said; how can the Wildlife Division of the MDNR and the NRC support a baiting ban, with little to no hard scientific backing, that limits a hunter’s ability to harvest a deer for his/her freezer, but more importantly decreases the expanding white-tailed deer population? There are many alternatives, and all must be considered when deciding how to manage wildlife. I urge you to think beyond the status quo and consider all options to maintain a “healthy” white-tailed deer population.


Quality Deer Management (QDM). Beyond population density, buck to doe ratio is another good indicator of the “health” of a white-tailed deer herd. The state of Michigan specifically, does not currently have an ideal ratio. QDM practices are widely accepted in hunting forums and promoted by the MDNR, evident by the recent changes in antlered deer license policies in the Upper Peninsula. Eliminating baiting has and will only worsen this ratio. The longer a hunter has to look a deer over, the better chance he/she has of identifying if it is the deer they really wish to harvest. Without bait, may times a hunter will only get a passing shot at an animal as it crosses through an opening. Spreading an “acceptable” amount of bait allows a hunter to drawn deer in range and keeps them in an area longer. The average hunter needs more than a passing glance to identify a “button buck” from a yearling doe or a mature buck from an immature animal. Baiting is obviously not the only way to close the gap between bucks and does, but without it, the herd could potentially head in the wrong direction.



ART



Elite Hunter Mentality. Baiting has been a tradition of numerous Michigan hunters. The baiting ban has essentially made these hunters criminals. I am an avid traditional bow hunter and do not use bait but know many other hunters who, prior to the baiting ban, heavily relied on baiting to aid in harvesting an animal. I also know several hunters who despise baiting, claiming it is quote “cheating” or “not REAL hunting”. This line of thinking is dangerous and must not be the basis for wildlife management decisions. For example, a traditional bow hunter, with good reason, may consider using a 350 fps compound bow or better yet a high powered rifle for deer hunting “cheating” or “not REAL hunting”. It is easy to see how this type of thinking, when given power, could become a slippery slope, leading to excessive hunting restrictions. The MDNR and NRC will fail to uphold the public trust if they make decisions simply based on the elite hunter mentality. As previous mentioned, the “best science available” should be used to ensure the public trust doctrine is upheld and resources are managed for the good of the public at large.



Social injustice. If you happen to live on a large private piece of land, you have the ability to draw in a large quantity of deer to “legal bait piles” or more commonly, food plots. It is not “right” to allow individuals who have more resources (I.E. monetary funds, time, land) to reap the benefits of an animal’s basic survival instinct to obtain energy while making laws that demean and criminalize those who, due to limited resources (I.E. monetary funds, time, land), must bait in order to achieve the same fundamental objective. Hunting has been and will hopefully continue to be part of America’s great heritage. It is critical that we do not allow class to limit a person’s hunting opportunities as many other counties have done in the past.



Lastly, and most obviously, money talks. Hunter recruitment should be the number one priority of the Wildlife Division of the MDNR if they value funding and conservation. It just doesn’t make good sense to patronize and criminalize good people who contribute to conservation and your salaries, through hunter monies, by enabling laws that make traditional methods of hunting illegal. The more hunting is limited (i.e. baiting ban), the less hunters there will be in the woods. The fewer hunters in the woods, the less money is available for conservation. The less money directed toward conservation, the fewer conservation based jobs there will be, and all Michiganders know that is the last thing we need….fewer jobs.

Jeff Roark
04-17-2011, 06:18 PM
I have to say the way the season went for me after our rifle and blackpowder seasons here in Ky, I will be putting out some bait. I don't think I even saw another deer after our rifle season. And let me say, it sure wasn't for the lack of trying.

rusty craine
04-18-2011, 11:38 AM
if you hunt the same 800 acre ranch for 12 years BIATING is exactly the wrong way to think of putting food out. what you do hunting over bait is teach the deer to duck :). After two years ov hunting over bait we realized the mistakes we were making. there after we would never hunt withing 100 yds of a feeding station.

We patterned the deer coming and going to the feeding stations and hunted funnels away from the feeding stations. Even then if you put too much hunting pressure on a funnel you drive the deer to be more and more nocturnal.

bating works for turkey, works a little while on pigs (depending on how much food is there but does not work well on well on deer for very long (IMO). well it works on deer for gun hunters who are 150yds away from feeder pretty good.

what feeding stations do IMO is keep the deer around. If you hunt over them ya drive the deer away. "BAITING" is something ya have to learn to use. It is a little harder than you might think. Ya still have to be smarter than the deer. You will see more deer that but does not mean that a tradbow hunter will get a shot at one. while you are tring to figure out how to put a deer in the freezer the deer is just as studiously tring to figure out how to stay out fo the freezer. the result will be which of you is the smartest :)

Rusty

rusty craine
04-18-2011, 11:42 AM
The trick is to have enough food plots, mast and feeding stations to hold the deer and then not drive them off by hunting them. Sounds easy, may not be so easy.

During rut I don't think I have seen a dozen bucks in 12 years come to bait.

I anthropormize the situtation and think what would I do if I had to dodge arrows and aliens to get to my local MaDonalds. That Big Mac might not be worth the trip :)

rusty

gurn
04-18-2011, 02:17 PM
Heck I was just proud of how he wrote that thing. Dont know where he got all them smarts from. Musta been his mom. :)

rusty craine
04-18-2011, 02:29 PM
Oh yes, I am sorry I took off in another direction. The letter was excellent. I just have a problem with the connotation of the word "baiting" but I should not have addressed it on your thread. Sorry.

As I am sure you well know it is not like shooting fish in a barrel. Some hunters have a problem with baiting bit they must have never tried it.

Your sons letterhead excellent.

Rusty

gurn
04-18-2011, 03:59 PM
Thanks, Your right, fish in ah barrel it aint. It fits in some situations and some it dont.

JCS-Bowhunter
04-19-2011, 04:53 PM
gurn

I'm new here so I am probably shooting my reputation in the foot. But I could not disagree with you more. As a person who does most of his hunting on public land I was glad to see baiting go away for a couple years ago and dread seeing it come back. I'm not being an obnoxious internet troll but I differ in my view point.

JCS-Bowhunter
04-20-2011, 09:27 AM
Now that I have some time, here are my opinions on your paragraphed sub topics:

Health - You only have to look at the TB situation in the NE corner of the lower peninsula to see the harmful effects of baiting. I do agree with you that the Chronic Wasting scare in Kent County was thankfully a "non event". I also agree with you that science needs to dictate hunting regulations.

Population Density - In Southwest Michigan I see deer only once every 3-4 shifts on public land. There are not that many deer located outside of private land. I'd rather see the DNR go to a single buck tag for all seasons here in Michigan to better balance the herd's buck/doe ratio.

QDM - This organization is much more interested in creating trophy opportunities then a healthy deer herd. I've been to a couple QDM meetings in which major land owners are the biggest advocates for their personal and family trophy endeavors. Much of the conversation revolves around creating bucks that will score of certain P&Y & B&C numbers. If I add anymore opinions to that topic I might get booted off this forum.

Elitist Mentality - My collection on medium to small bucks and lots of freezer does puts me in the "meat -n- potatoes" category of bowhunter. I have no problem with specific archery or firearm configurations during their legal seasons (except cross bows during archery season). The same arguments against baiting by "elitist" could be made against my climbing tree stand, carbon clothing, GPS, Laser range finder and the other high tech toys that I utilize.

Hunter Recruitment - This is the only area that I can see would be OK to baiting. To help get kids under 18 interested I would be OK with it during the youth hunt only (which I would move BEFORE any early doe seasons in southern Michigan).

My major issue with baiting over the years on public land has been the feeling that if someone maintains a bait pile then they have somehow obtained exclusive hunting rights to an area (100-200 yard radius around their bait) based on their effort hauling it and money spent buying it for the entire season. Since most piles are located close to roads and trails and my hunting spots are typically much deeper, I occasionally (but not purposefully) walk through these areas getting in and out. I've been in a couple heated confrontations over "your walking to close to my bait" over the years and been personally threatened on the topic. I'm a non-confrontational person and dread having to deal with this again.

To take this one step further, I do not believe that giving crossbow hunters 3 months of hunting over a bait pile is going to do our hobby any good.

My 2 cents worth...

Again Gurn I'm not looking to flame anyone...just expressing my perspective.

gurn
04-20-2011, 06:25 PM
Now that I have some time, here are my opinions on your paragraphed sub topics:

Health - You only have to look at the TB situation in the NE corner of the lower peninsula to see the harmful effects of baiting. I do agree with you that the Chronic Wasting scare in Kent County was thankfully a "non event". I also agree with you that science needs to dictate hunting regulations.

Population Density - In Southwest Michigan I see deer only once every 3-4 shifts on public land. There are not that many deer located outside of private land. I'd rather see the DNR go to a single buck tag for all seasons here in Michigan to better balance the herd's buck/doe ratio.

QDM - This organization is much more interested in creating trophy opportunities then a healthy deer herd. I've been to a couple QDM meetings in which major land owners are the biggest advocates for their personal and family trophy endeavors. Much of the conversation revolves around creating bucks that will score of certain P&Y & B&C numbers. If I add anymore opinions to that topic I might get booted off this forum.

Elitist Mentality - My collection on medium to small bucks and lots of freezer does puts me in the "meat -n- potatoes" category of bowhunter. I have no problem with specific archery or firearm configurations during their legal seasons (except cross bows during archery season). The same arguments against baiting by "elitist" could be made against my climbing tree stand, carbon clothing, GPS, Laser range finder and the other high tech toys that I utilize.

Hunter Recruitment - This is the only area that I can see would be OK to baiting. To help get kids under 18 interested I would be OK with it during the youth hunt only (which I would move BEFORE any early doe seasons in southern Michigan).

My major issue with baiting over the years on public land has been the feeling that if someone maintains a bait pile then they have somehow obtained exclusive hunting rights to an area (100-200 yard radius around their bait) based on their effort hauling it and money spent buying it for the entire season. Since most piles are located close to roads and trails and my hunting spots are typically much deeper, I occasionally (but not purposefully) walk through these areas getting in and out. I've been in a couple heated confrontations over "your walking to close to my bait" over the years and been personally threatened on the topic. I'm a non-confrontational person and dread having to deal with this again.

To take this one step further, I do not believe that giving crossbow hunters 3 months of hunting over a bait pile is going to do our hobby any good.

My 2 cents worth...

Again Gurn I'm not looking to flame anyone...just expressing my perspective.


No problem. First his thoughts were not on the TB area but as you said the CWD scare.

As far as population I think that has aready been determined through the best sicence avalible that in general the population in Mich is over the target of sustainability for a healthy population. I understand your concerns with sighting but were talkin statewide not a certian area. Also as you know many times on heavy hunted state land daylight deer sightings are not really an scientific indicator of population as there surival instinces cause many to be nocturnal.
I see that in our local area, Tracks every where but daylight sightiings are very low. Or ya just might be in the wrong place in the wrond time.

The same arguments against baiting by "elitist" could be made against my climbing tree stand, carbon clothing, GPS, Laser range finder and the other high tech toys that I utilize.

Yep thats why what we feel as our own personal hunting religon has no place in pure scentific game management. And should have no input in it. It's ah personal choice.

As far as confrotation on state land This happens all the time when someone bust his hindend putting up ah treestand scouting and clearing shooting lanes only ta find some other feller settin 15 yds away or even in his stand . Thats just the nature of the beast on state land. Been there done that. Should we get rid of treestand and ground blinds for the same reasons?

I also disagree about the crosssbow and bait . Our sport as traditional hunters with or with out bait, we put these handicaps on ourself freely and should not expect others to agree. Crossbow are effective in harvesting game thats what we do for game management. One could argue that the X boys are more usfull game managers that us trad boys.
It should not be given power to affect others who chose to do differet, It does do our sport good. The most honerable thing in our sport is game management because it can be sicentificly defended for the health of the herd and is not just someones opinion.
It really boils down to if ya dont like it dont do it. But what we like or dont should not be law unless we have good science.
My son is ah Aquatic Bilogist for the federal goverment and majored in wildlife and fisheries. He knows that we are simply tools used by those responsible for game management like the DNR. No religon or personal right or wrong hunting thought, just pure game management backed with facts and numbers. I like that cause it's easy ta defend.