What Happened to Target Archery?

[CarolinaBob]

In an another thread Mr Leslie listed the FITA/3DI website and mentioned that the US wasn't even listed. What happened to archery? How many have thriving archery clubs/ranges in their area? I don't. Is this part of the anti-gun, weapon, mentallity of the left? Disarm them and make them sheep. I live in one of the largest cities in SC but still have to drive over an hour to go to any 3D shoots, the nearest archery shop is over 30 minutes away and of course it is compounds. Several years ago Hursch SP? won the gold why didn't archery pickup?

[1bjd]

I Think that the biggest problem with Target Archery is the same thing that is wrong our country! The problem TELEVISION! We have turned into a society of watchers and not players. We can now watch videos of hunting or supersross on ESPN and not even break a sweat. Target archery does not lend itself well to tv viewing so there is little interest. Would a youngster rather watch our own LIMBWALKER shoot at some distant target or spend an hour with a video game. As wonderful as it is for us it really is not very exciting! The only way to bring it back is one kid at a time. We have to take the time to insure that our kids find the magic of the arrow flight and the love of the sport that we here have! My two sons have the bug and my daughter at least knows how to shoot and understands the benefits of it for her kids. I have five grandkids all under five and am already overstocked with archery gear for them. I for one am going back to target and going to try to bring others with me! :2cents: John

[Pinelander]

Archery clubs and indoor ranges are alive and well here in the Midwest. We have 3 archery clubs and 2 indoor ranges within a 20 minute drive here in N. Illinois. Probably another 3 archery clubs within 45 minutes, and another 3 or 4 within an hour and half drive.

But field archery is NOT alive and well, although each club does have NFAA outdoor ranges setup. The 3D's are ever popular, as they have been for the last 15 years. The bowhunting hype has all but put target field archery in the cellar. :(

[DAS]

Having archery and the rifle sports in the Olympics would do a lot to promote interest in the sport, but the people who control what we see have decided on a total blackout on all weapons based sports. I'll bet if you asked 100 people off the street, they wouldn't even know that archery was in the Olympics. Everything in this country is being shaped by marketing people, propaganda, and misinformation. You have to dig to find truth in anything and most people won't dig.
Archery isn't as exciting to watch as basketball, but come on! Golf?, bowling?, CURLING?, and even baseball, at least at the pro level are like having a lobotomy.
I also agree with what's been said that we have become a nation of video junkies. We don't actually DO anything more. Virtual reality is just one more marketing hoax, that has been aimed specifically at kids. Now there is a whole generation of young people who are convinced that they can sit in a stupor with drool trickling out the corner of their mouth in front of a screen and experience it all.
Well, that's my rant for the morning!

[The Gray Fox]

I think there are several pieces to this puzzle, especially for those of us who are not fortunate enough to live in a small town or rural area. First off, let me clarify that I live in what is known as the Atlanta Metropolitan Area. GA has 159 small counties and almost 30 of them make up the Metro Area. One must drive a long way to find anything that doesn't exist in a subdivision or shopping area. Therefore, a place to safely shoot 3-D or an NFAA course must be at least an hour if not two hours away--how much round trip gas money is that today for your truck or SUV?

If you have found a place to establish a range, you then must have legal access to use it for this purpose--probably requires approval by local zoning and/or law enforcement folks to agree our "weapons" can be discharged there. Unless this property has abolutely no value to a developer or is owned by a family who hasn't yet decided to sell it, you'd better have lots of money for a lease and still be prepared to move every couple of years because the land will be sold out from under you--see below for source of funding.

You have to have a group of very, very dedicated and hard working souls to organize the club, do all the work, and probably fund it out of pocket for the first year. You must be an approved-by-some-organization club to get liability insurance--deep personal pockets again, and that organization won't want to give you a charter until you have the insurance. Sounds bureaucratic and it is.

Then the same group of hardy souls must become top marketers and salespeople to sell one-time use or annual membership fees to a group of very busy archers who feel all they must do/have time to do is show up and shoot and leave before the targets are picked up and stored.
Oh, yes, and to prevent everything your new club has from being destroyed or hauled off each month, you'd better have a very secure building or shipping container on site with heavy locks, and that's only if the range is adjacent to the property of one of the founding members of the club who personally checks the locks daily.

Now all of this must sound pretty negative, but I think it is fairly realistic, and not just for those of us in the big cities. Please tell me that I'm wrong, because I would like to believe that I am, in fact I'm hoping some hardy souls will start a club within 30 minutes drive of where I live.

[Viper]

Gents -

Unfortunately - the shooting sports are boring for spectators. The elite shooters in a Hi-Power rifle match, or a FITA course are guys standing like statues, doing the same thing over and over again. Not very interesting to watch, even for those of us who are into it. You might make an arguement for Field Archery, if the courses were set up and maintained as well as golf course, but they are not.

Yes, it's a weapon, and that does carry a nasty connotation in some sectors, unfortunate but true.

Then there's the part about being boring for the participants. How many times have you heard, that "I can shoot at paper, it's too boring". Well, unless you're pretty deciplined or slightly bent, like we are, it is boring. Like weight lifting, martial arts, swimming and most athletic endevors, that's what it takes to excel in it. A lot of people don't want to be bothered with that these days, "they don't have the time". To any reasonable man, why in blue blazes would you spend years with a recurve, when you can achieve the same and usually better results with a compound bow? It's still archery, isn't it?

On the 60's we though we were becoming a nation of "instant" junkies, well 40 years later, the new expression is "come on, I don't have all second!". Anyway, people don't understand how or why I can stay in front of the same target for hours and try to do the same exact thing over and over. Funny thing, its those are the same guys who say, "Damn I wish I could shoot like you." They don't get the connection.

DAS - can you and I stop ranting now???

Viper out.

[Desert Archer]

It's funny how reagional this business is. I used to live in Tucson, Arizona - the home of PSE, the big time compound maker. The only archery activity going on there was 3D and it was dominated by wheel bows (kind of understandable). The county has a beautiful range in a local park but it is not properly set up, poorly maintained and little used (in part because of the conditions). Recurve and longbow shooting was almost unheard of (or at least stealthy - LOL).

Last summer I moved to Mesa, part of the "greater Pheonix metro area". Although this is still compound country, at lest according to looking in every archery shop I've been in so far, there is a good bit of archery going on. If I drive 13.3 miles Northeast from my house I am at the county range where there is a 28 target field course, a 14 target animal course, a 3D course, a flat range with ramada and a 20' to 60 yard practice range. If I go 17.6 miles Northwest I am at a Phoenix city park that has a target range (all the way to 90m). They have free practice every Saturday morning. They hold FITA 900 rounds and American 900 rounds several times a year. About 30 miles North and West of me is Ben Avery shooting range, one of the biggest gun and archery ranges in the country. They annually hold one of the major FITA shoots in the country (the Arizona Cup) every April. The state NAA outdoor target championship is the week before the AZ Cup.

Field archery, the most popular form of arrow flinging back in the '60s, was just about dead here despite all the above activity. I managed to persuade a local club (that put on 3D shoots) to sponser the state Field championship this month. It wasn't going to happen until I talked them into it (by volunering to run it). I'm going to try and have regular field shoots after that. Don't know how it will be received but I'm gonna take my best shot (LOL).

I consider myself very, very luck to have landed some place where there is so much going on, and still my favorite (field archery) was non-existant until I decided to get involved. I would say the best bet for field archery is to get the support or backing of a city or county parks and recreation dept. They have the land and can cover insurance and maintenance as long as it is available to the public. Get some archers together who want field shooting and present a proposal. If there is interest the local gov. may help you out.

As for "target archery", if your 3D range has any room at all, get a couple of you together and buy a Whitetail target and set it up at 60 yards. Shoot the American 900 round (30 arrows at each of 60, 50 & 40 yards). You can have 4 people shoot on one target (two at a time). If some of the 3D shooters see you having fun, they just might want to try it. Also, look into starting a JOAD program. Get kids involved for the future of archery.

Dave

PS: Not sure if that was a rant...or a sales pitch (smiley face goes here).

[The Gray Fox]

Desert Archer:

You are just down the road from the source of some of the best target archery coaches in the country, Arizona State University. I shot there in the mid-60's prior to going to 'Nam and was taught by one of the best collegiate coaches, Margaret Klann. We were also fortunate that the great Al Henderson's shop was just across the valley from the school. I still have my '64 Hoyt Pro Medalist which I bought from Al back when Dick Tone, owner of Cavalier Archery, worked behind the counter with him.

In those days, ASU was the source of many of the high school and junior college archery instructors in Mesa and other parts of the Valley of the Sun, and I hope it still is.

Interestingly enough, in those days archery at ASU was a varsity sport. There was no men's program, however, and I was the only man on the squad my sophomore year. Miss Klann's answer was that my travel would be funded by the women's program. I have fond memories of travelling to an intercollegiate shoot in San Bernardino as the only guy with all the female members of our team. They were all great sports about it, but it was sometimes hard for me to fully concentrate on hitting the gold.

I was very fortunate several years later as a staff writer for Archery Magazine to interview both Miss Klann and Al Henderson. There were few people as genuinely nice and devoted to the sport as they were, and those of us who knew them miss them a lot. I just re-read my copy of Al's book, Peak Performance Archery, and there is a nice photo of the two of them in it. For those of you who don't have the book, the last photo in the book is almost worth buying it. It was taken in St. Louis in 1986, and is titled "The eagles gather." In the photo are Al Henderson, Earl Hoyt, Jr., Frank Scott, Glenn St. charles, and Chuck Saunders.

[CarolinaBob]

DA 11 years ago DM AFB in Tucson had a great range. ramada butts out to 100 3D range and a certified NFAA 28 target walkaround. The problem was no workers, no field shooters, except JOAD and now I am told no range. Here in SC nada. Hey wannna trade a Playstation for a Jackal, or a Moosejaw?

[Spike]

I learned to shoot (compound) at a field archery club in NJ. It has unfortunately seen a decline in recent years. I return to NJ each year to attend a couple of their shoots. I believe it is due to 2 things, general decrease in those choosing archery as a hobby and the rise of 3D. 3D tends to be more exciting and generally favors those using high speed rigs. High speed rigs both trad and compound usually are less forgiving and harder to shoot for beginners, that in concert with no backstop and lost broken arrows may drive many beginners to quit after trying 3D without ever trying field archery. Field archery is a much better setup to "develop" good archers, equip based classes but rankings within so you compete with those at your level not the best shooters unless you rise to that level. Baby steps twords being a top shooter were provided. Marked yardage and clear targets to aim at put the premium on shooting technique and skill not speed of arrows to mitigate yardage guessing. Field archery is a very challenging sport to me, whether the goal is a perfect 560 and a bunch of Xs with my compound or just keeping arrows on the bale with barebow. Both types of equipment require dedication and lots of practice to shoot with the best, compounds just have a different standard of performance, they are not easier. If fact some of the trad police raising examples of loose parts, and problems with compounds making for unreliable machines could be used to say that compounds are much more difficult to shoot with continued accuracy :sbrug:

[Heathen]

In an another thread Mr Leslie listed the FITA/3DI website and mentioned that the US wasn't even listed. What happened to archery? How many have thriving archery clubs/ranges in their area? I don't. Is this part of the anti-gun, weapon, mentallity of the left? Disarm them and make them sheep. I live in one of the largest cities in SC but still have to drive over an hour to go to any 3D shoots, the nearest archery shop is over 30 minutes away and of course it is compounds. Several years ago Hursch SP? won the gold why didn't archery pickup?

Bob,

I don't think it has to do with the liberal mentality. I consider myself a liberal on social issues and conservative on fiscal policies, and I don't want the disarmament of law abiding citizens. Everyone should have the right to protect themselves and the privilege to hunt. I'm in full support of the 2nd amendment to the Constitution. With our one party rule today we need it more than ever.
If you take a look at the younger generation today, their interests have changed from when we were growing up. Computers,& video games seems to be the norm. Our generation spent most of our free time outdoors. Archery, and hunting related activities doesn't have the appeal it once had. Let's hope archery makes a comeback, these youngsters today don't know what they are missing.

Jim

[Desert Archer]

Gray Fox,

I haven't been here (Phoenix area) that long but I have not heard of any archery activity at ASU. Football players killing people or taking pictures of naked girls without their permission, but no archery (if I sound a little down on college sports...then I said that right).

I have been told there are no "target" archery shops in the area. Sure, they will order what ever you want but there isn't a decent recurve (unless it is camo) to be found anywhere. I'm still greatful for the ranges and activities that are here. It is so far ahead of what I had in Tucson it makes me humble.

Bob,

You have mentioned that range at DMAFB before. Sad to say that too is part of the past, just like my memories of field archery being found in almost every little town and county.

Dave

[The Gray Fox]

I would bet that if you give the nice folks at Cavalier Archery in neighboring Chandler a call they can tell you today's state of target archry in the Valley. Someone from either customer service or marketing should be able to fill you in.

[Desert Archer]

I would bet that if you give the nice folks at Cavalier Archery in neighboring Chandler a call they can tell you today's state of target archry in the Valley.

I called them when I first moved here. They said field was DOA and there was little or no "traditional" shooting. Compounds rule.

Dave

[jeffw]

OK-I'll bite. I think it was caused by the liberals. The idea that everyone, is entitled to everything that some others have to work for. For example, since not everyone wants to practice and become proficient at archery, technology was introduced to bring these archery want-a-be's up to par with those that work at it. Kinda like social programs where our tax dollars bring up the standard of living for folks who just can't find it in themselves to be productive and get a job. Well, maybe that and other diversions such as tv, video games, other sports, and the transition of America from a rural to an urban population. :cheers:

[Desert Archer]

jeffw,

I was around when the compound was first introduced (that was a big part of why I dropped out back then). The initial goal was just to increase performance. Subsequent marketing (which I think came on in the late '70s to early '80s) was aimed at your "...archery want-a-be's...". And, despite the way I feel about most political liberals, I think it's more of a cultural thing. Every other aspect of our society is becoming geared to instant gratification.

Over on a target board I frequent there was a lot of discussion about the the "Korean Method" of training and shooting. Many thought that if we adopted the Korean Method we would get back into the medals at the Olympics. I pointed out that in Lee's book Total Archery he mentioned that 10th and 12th grade kids in Korea who are serious about archery shoot 500 to 1000 arrows a day. I said, you find me an American kid who is shooting 500 to 1000 arrows a day and I will introduce you to the next US Olympic Gold Medalist. I don't think that kid exists. Not in the "what ever" society we have today.

OK, I'll calm down now (LOL).

Dave

[tuffshot]

Archery equipment is just like golf and other equipment, there are the few that excell thru practice and dedication. And then there are those that rely more on their high tech equipment to fill in the voids for the weekend warrior.

Each year there are improvements including bows, arrows and other components yet there are still a few records out there that have not been broken even though the contestants are shooting the new and improved models. But by the same token there are more novice archers that have improved with less dedication to the sport. :sbrug:

[jeffw]

I'm really not sure that 'technology', ie-the compund bow is entirely to blame for the demise of target archery. My post was only in half-jest(although there may be some truth in it) primarily to answer to Hank and keep things 'fair and balanced' here(LOL). When I became involved in archery in the early '70's the compound was just starting to catch on. All the guys I knew at the archery club welcomed it. And frankly, the best shots were still beating the other guys regardless of equipment. The compound did not 'level' the playing field so to speak, although scores did generally improve. Sadly today, it's tough to find the old NFAA field courses that many of us learned on. I think if today's archers, and potential archers were to ever really experience one they may really enjoy it. I think field/target archery has suffered from an image problem in that it doesn't look that exciting, and as a result, has not been promoted as a challenging sport. I've seen several comparisions between golf and archery, neither of which will ever appear on the X-games. However, golf has much greater participation, there are vastly more golf courses than archery ranges, and golf seems to be growing by leaps and bounds. I really don't know the answers; has technology somehow ruined the essence of field/target archery? Has bowhunting, or 3D, overshadowed the sport of field/target archery resulting in the bow's only association is for hunting-something that 75-80% of the population does not participate in? Beats me, I just know at times I'd like to get in the "Way-Back machine' and return to 1975 and shoot a round on the range.

[The Gray Fox]

I think that we've kind of stumbled upon a kernel of wisdom here, and that is that the average American is looking for the easiest way to do anything, shoot a bow or make the almighty dollar--with which he or she can buy the latest and greatest bow or anything else that is wanted.

In late 1971 or early '72, my memory fails me, I interviewed Tom Jennings who at that time was producing the first Jennings woody compound from a tarpaper enclosed garage in North Hollywood. I was interviewing him for Archery Magazine, the house organ for the NFAA. The NFAA at that time was scared to death of the compound, which had been originated under the Allen patent. I will never forget Tom Jennings comment in reference to his version of the patent. He said, "Anything over 50 pounds draw weight simply asks how deep into the tree you want to bury a broadhead in a tree after you go through the deer." Now, this was in discussion of a bow with a 50% letoff which the average NFAA recurve shooter was having a devil of a time getting a clean release with. MR. Jennings, who until that time had produced some of the finest hunting recurves, was speaking in the context of how the bow would influence hunting with a bow.

I believe that if we were to reduce this whole idea of traditional archery to the idea of releasing the string with fingers most of the current production of compounds, regardless of the holding weight, would fall by the wayside. The average archer simply cannot shoot the current compound bow with anything other than a release, the bows are too short and the string angles are too acute. For example, my younger brother, who is now 53, had to stop shooting recurves because he had a back injury and no health insurance at his job. He proweled the pawn shops and found an old, long, Hoyt Pro Staff compound he could shoot with fingers. Not his preferance, but he can still shoot instinctively with it.

Now, then, business and economics rears its ugly head. We all know and take pride in the fact that we, as traditional archers don't need all the accessories and garbage that the compound shooters do. If you were a pro shop owner, who would you cater to? We all know that the profit is in the accessories, not the Martin or Bear or even Matthews trad bow. Coupled with this is the fact that the average consumer wants to go into a store and buy something that is there, for sale, not special-ordered many months down the pike.

Add to this the fact that many trad shooters now shoot carbon arrows and don't destroy them as often as aluminum or wood shafts and that really drives the last nail in the shop owner's coffin. If you were the owner, you too, would promote the latest and greatest compound to those who can put the platinum card through your cash register. You've got a wife and kids and an accountant to support.

I guess the bottom line is that we should realize that we are in a very small and decreasing minority because of a variety of factors that influence everything in our lives. What might be an answer? (Long ago in the Army I learned that AN answer was much better than waiting for THE answer) join a local club, join a state trad association and offer to help out. More than anything, offer to work with kids and womens' programs. Kids are our future, for this and anything else you hold dear. And, like it or not, women control most of the checkbooks in this country--I don't care what you tell your buddies. Mentor a kid--yours or someone else's and get your significant other involved in some aspect of archery. I firmly believe this is the only way that trad archery, or anything else you hold dear, can survive, much less grow, in the 21st century. Sorry for the sermon, but I have watched this for many years.

[Grey Ghost]

Desert Archer, you just gave me a book to read.

"in Lee's book Total Archery he mentioned that 10th and 12th grade kids in Korea who are serious about archery shoot 500 to 1000 arrows a day. I said, you find me an American kid who is shooting 500 to 1000 arrows a day and I will introduce you to the next US Olympic Gold Medalist

It seems every time I mention shooting 500 arrows a day, a herd of people come down on me from the "One Arrow School". Its nice to know that at least one other person agrees that you can show improvement by shooting just as well as by not shooting.

gg
:shooting:

[Desert Archer]

...you can show improvement by shooting just as well as by not shooting.
GG,

I would have thought that was self evident (LOL). Another example why I don't fit in well with the "trad" single arrow crowd. I've often wondered how these folks explain Fred Bear and Howard Hill (just to name two). They didn't shoot one arrow at foam. They shot field and targets - over and over and over. You don't suppose that's why they were so good, do you?

As for the book, it is very interesting. I don't think it is "the answer" that some do, but I look for wisdom where ever I can find it. McKinney's book The Simple Art of Winning is just as good and a lettle clearer to me. Read both and take from them what you can.

Dave