Broadheads

[SubconsciousShooter]

What are your thoughts on broadheads?

Penetration is important to me, since I shoot low poundage bows. I was very happy with the penetration of my Madoc 125 gr. when I shot through the ribs and far leg bone of a deer, but I had the same broadhead type bend into a "C" shape after hitting heavy bone, most likely vertabrae on another deer due to bad shot placement.

Basically, I have noticed two different trends of bowhunters today.

1) Shoot the heaviest broadhead and arrow combination possible to blast through the deer (even the shoulder blade). Guys who go this route shoot broadheads weighing 200 plus grains and usually pull 70 plus pounds of draw weight. 250 grain broadheads are not too heavy for these guys.

2) Shoot the lightest broadhead (within reason) and just be sure to slip it into the vital area (like we should do all the time) and the flat shooting bow and accuracy of the archer should do the work.

What's your opinion? I've been shooting 125 gr broadheads, but am debating whether to go to 100 grs with a slightly more fragile head, or go up to 140 or 150 grains with a head that will punch through bone.

[Bill Carlsen]

I shoot about 225 grains on my Beman 340's and get about a 600 grain arrow as a result. I shoot that weight of bh because in terms of tuning the arrow to the bow 200-225 grains is perfect. If that arrow weighed 525 I wouldn't fret about it because a straight flying arrow is what I want and that is how I get it. I am not trying to blow thru any shoulders, either. I have hit deer, bear and caribou in the shoulder with various heads with the same result, no penetration out of a 66# bow. i want the arrow that shoots the straightest and not more than 10 gr. per lb. of bow weight. The Bemans I use have a 100 gr. insert plus a 125 Phantom head. Phantoms will not stand up to shoulder blades very well but make nice big holes in lungs, hearts and livers and usually stick in the ground on the other side of the animal. The only bone shot that I have had consistent luck with is a spinal shot. :)

[BLACK WOLF]

I shot my bull this year with a Easton Axis 300 series arrow at 30" long with 160 g. STOS broadheads on them which totaled about 515 g. and got a complete pass through and couldn't even find the arrow after a short search.

My bow is a 62lbs. @ 29" DAS.

If a 500 g. arrow with a STOS 2 blade broadhead can pass through an elk like butter, it's going to pass through a deer with no problem.

I believe when hunting N. American Big Game, I have increased my accuracy range going lighter therefore increasing my effective distance and creating less errors in more typical shooting distances for myself.

I'm sold on these lighter, thinner Axis type shafts with 2 blade broadheads.

The year before I shot a bull in the exact same place and only got about 18" of penetration with a 720 g. Grizzly Stik and G5 Shkote broadhead.

The lack of penetration was probably due mainly to the poor design of the Shkote but you would think with all that extra weight of the arrow it would have performed better.

Ray

[Bob Gordon]

I never have been a heavy bow or heavy arrow guy. I have had such good luck with med. weight fast bows and fairly light weight arrows. The last few years I have been using a 56 lb Warf and a little over 400 gn skinny Easton ACC carbons with 100 gn Magnus vented broadheads. I have done moose, black bears, lots of caribou and a lot of big deer and elk with this combo and never had a problem. The whole secret to me is real, real sharp, proper shot placement and the ability to put it where you want it every time you shoot at a big game animal. You have to get the arrow where it belongs, if you can't then don't take the shot. Of course having a near 32" draw length helps give me a lot of free arrow speed and that helps a lot...warf

[Pinelander]

Regardless of arrow weight or broadhead weight....

Make sure the head is razor sharp and your well-tuned arrow goes where it's supposed to, end of story.

But then again, I asked elsewhere why they were shooting 600-700 grain arrows. The common response went something like this -

"All my shots are close, so trajectory isn't a big deal."
hmmm... that's all fine and dandy if you're not shooting much past 15 yards or if your brain can figure out longer distance trajectories at a moment's notice.

"I like the idea of all that weight "pushing" through."
hmmm... could've fooled me if I didn't already know that a heavy arrow will NOT penetrate shoulder. Unless of course you're shooting 70-80#, which we all know is reserved for only a few good men, LOL.

[SubconsciousShooter]

Thanks for the good info...

Did you ever notice when reading TBM that all shots are taken within 15 yards? I will say that my goal next year will be to shoot out to 25 yards accurately every time whether I have used a laser range finder before hand or not. This year, 20 yards and in is about as far as I can shoot considering my lobbing trajectory of my 420 plus grain arrow shot with only 42 pounds.

Next year, I hope to shoot 44 to 45 pounds bow poundage as well, 400 grain arrow total weight tipped with a 105. grain broadhead.

Anyway, there are so many on the market (broadheads) that its fun to experiement.

I have had my best results with Bear Superrazorhead Lite at 110 grains. That has claimed 3 deer. And, I like the Madoc although it is not popular as others and I certainly cannot hit heavy bone with it.

[SubconsciousShooter]

Here is a pic of the exit wound from my Madoc 125 grain. I have the leg pulled forward, but I presume that the leg was back adjacent to the ribs when the broadhead exited the rib cage.

[SubconsciousShooter]

Here is a better pic although a bit gruesome.

[SubconsciousShooter]

Well, I would like to say that that deer did not die in vain. And I can't wait to get the venison back from the butcher.

Back to broadheads...

Anyone try the B52 Montech?

I looked at the G5 3-blade Montech and was not impressed by the small blades and lack of cutting surfaces. I would imagine that the B52 is the same, but a single blade head and high carbon steel blades instead of stainless steel.

Anyway, I think it is hard to beat the long standbys like Bear. Zwickey, and other simple, but proven designs. The Wensel Woodmans look real deadly, but are a bit heavy. Snuffers....look cool, too. Anyone try the 125 grain 3 blade snuffers?

[Jim Pritchard]

I have shot the 135 gr. Magnus, 160 gr. Grizzley and 125 gr Wentzel Woodsman in the past with pretty good results.
This year in Namibia I shot the 125 Magnus Stinger. I had great results on three animals.
I shot a huge bull eland late one evening. I could barely see and shot him in the shoulder. The "crac"k would have woken the dead. I got about 1" of penetration. The recovered arrow and broadhead were in perfect shape. The eland was essentially uninjured.
Now that's a darn strong broadhead.
I've been told that killing an eland by hitting the shoulder requires at least a .338 Win Mag. Well I have one but it was back in Selma.
I'm pretty much sold on the 125 gr. 2 blade Stinger.

:2cents:

[SubconsciousShooter]

Cool, sounds like the kind of ruggedness that I'm looking for.

Anybody mount their own broadheads onto broadhead adaptors?

What kind of glue do you use? A hotmelt like that used to put in inserts into alllunimum arrows?

Thought I might start mounting my own broadheads on the adaptors to make sure that I get good alignment.

[Bill Carlsen]

...glueing on your own bhs requires something like ferr-l-tite hot melt glue. You just need to make sure that they are on straight and spin true. You seem to like the design of the Modoc head but I have heard that they are not very tough. You might like the STOS heads. Black Wolf used them this year on elk and did very well . They are similar in profile to the Modoc but are 100 times stronger.

[SubconsciousShooter]

Agreed there...they are not very tough. Been thinking about going to the tried and true Zwickys. I have hotmelt that I use for inserts, but it was desgined for carbon arrows and probably wouldn't work as well as the Ferr-L-Tite by Bohning.

I think that I would gain a great deal of satisfaction out of mounting the broadheads myself, checking for alignment, and sharpening them for the hunt.

Black Diamond heads are 110 grains, but with a 25 grain adapter, would make a 135 grain head. A little heavy, but the darn thing (zwicky) head looks like it would hold up even if it it heavy bone AND they are CHEAP! They just might be the lowest cost, quality, time-proven head out there.

[elkdreamer]

i hunt here on the eastern shore of md some nightmarish places to everfind an animal after you hit it.......but thats where the big ones live.....as most know here or on the "wall" i'm a hardcore simmons interceptor believer.........however.......once a time back and night before last i tried the wensel woodsman again because of all the raving reviews and everyones luck with them.........and once again i have to be the only traditional bowhunter alive that these heads simply do not work for me.......i have them sharp enough to cut fog.........all of my bemans are comming in with heads around 513/515 shot out of the chastain 56# @ 28""...........i shot a big doe.....text book placement at 20yrds......just behind the left elbow. she took off like an atlas rocket........and it looked like a bad outdoor channel hunting show.....to much arrow flopping around....[being used to the simmons pass throughs this was not good].......but not to worry.....3 blade should make for an easy follow up.........i was hunting our family farm that we had planted in hardwoods and pine under marylands forrest recapture program about 8 yrs ago.......choked with blackberry bramble, rag weed, sage and just plain jungle.........but i thouht i heard her fall..............i had only a few drops of blood after the first 50yrds............and a brief circle where i thought she fell turned up not a thing........came back yesturday morn with my two border collies that i have been working with to find dead deer [not a specialty of the border collie one would note].......it took us 3 hrs of casting in about 15 acres of the above jungle before my oldest bc showed any interest in the wind.........and then i found a moderate blood trail......and then my shaft.......and by that time the bc had the dead doe........now this is a distance of about 350 yrds from where i hit this animal with a perfect hit.........the woodsman did get through the chest and had stopped on hitting the far leg bone.........where was the great blood trail..........????????? i have never, never, never had a good blood trail with woodsman or have i ever had a pass through........i have to be the only tradional guy alive with this problem...[ though i saw a vidio with the inventor when he also left a lot of arrow flopping around in a nice buck shot with one]..............

never, never, never again will i mount one on a shaft i plan to use for myself...........i have had tremendous luck with the simmons in the above mentioned hunting conditions.........i have never lost a deer shot with one.....[that will ruin my luck for sure]........they pass through and leave tremendous wound channels..........and so far .......they have allways left a trail that could be followed with ease..........just can't figure out why a grown man that has something working for him would fool around with something that he knew just didn't work for him..............

before i went to the simmons.......besides trying the woodsman.......i killed deer with the old bear razor head......stos..........the eclipse style joureyman.......the zwickey deltas with fred's inserts......sometimes i had a good blood trail.......sometimes i had none and had to spend a lot of time on my knees........they all turned me into being a good tracker.........but the simmons has made a believer out of me on deer......i promise to stay loyal from now on...............elkdreamer

[SubconsciousShooter]

Thanks for your input :) Since you said something bad about the Woodsman, can I say something bad about the Bear broadheads?

I have found that when the deer is quartering away, that the shape of the bear broadhead IS NOT the ideal head to use. What happens is that the broadhead will not penetrate the rib cage and instead will scrape down the whole length of the rib cage and in my case after this happend the bear broadhead bit, and broke (I might add) the front shoulder of the deer. I recovered this deer do to using a very sharp broadhead and a 6 hour tracking job the next day. Deer died after the 2nd time I jumped it from it's bed in very thick cover. We were tracking on a Sunday and hunting on Sunday in Pennsylvania is illegal. We were not carrying any bows with us on that day. Luckily when he made his final dash, he did himself in and collapsed right near a barn and all my dad had to do was to back up the car along side the barn and we were off to the meat processors.

But the shape of the Simmons broadhead MAY have turned the broadhead into the lungs and I may have recovered that buck within 100 to 200 yards max had I been using a Simmons with the concave shape. That's why I'd like to shoot a straight edge broadhead or the concave curve of the Simmons. Just not sure if my low poundage bows would have enough kinetic energy to push a Simmons completely through a deer. I now shoot 42 pounds and probably will not go more than 44 to 45 pounds in my lifetime due to physical limitations.

[SubconsciousShooter]

The Simmons Razor Shark Broadhead 100gr looks pretty nice. Heavy blade combined with a light weight is something hard to find in a broadhead. Might just be the ticket I am looking for.

Thanks!

[O'B]

I don't have the experience of as many broadheads as most of you, but I've liked Magnus heads and if you want inexpensive and seem to be almost bomb proof I really like Ribteks. Wide assortment of weights with more versatility with the type of insert you glue into them. :2cents:

[Boho]

Well I'm the only one on here as far as I know that shoots a needle. I was talking with a fellow bowhunter and we have hunted the same property for 20+ years. We figured up when a broadhead hit home, we had about a 50% recovery rate before we even got down out of the tree. We are at about 98% with the needle. But when I do shoot a broadhead, unless it's my 90# compound with a Spitfire, I use a pod. I try to match the broadhead with the bow I'm using. If it's a lighter bow, I'll use a 100 grain head. I might go to 125 or 145 if I'm using a 60 or so pound bow. Of course that's when the arrow likes it to when bareshafted. (The first figures I posted here at first also were without the use of poison. Mississippi is the only state that allows poison.)

[bluegrassbowhunter]

This is my first post here & I love talking broadheads......I shoot what I consider moderately light pounds 50@28 -55@28.I have shot 2 blade of several makes & 4 blades also.My favorite 2 blade is a stos 160 but for deer sized game & turkeys i can't say enough good things about the muzzy phantoms,i've took 5 critter with em this season & both my spring turkeys last season & like Bill Carlsen said they cut a big hole & let's out alot of blood which is what you want...but at your poudage might ought to try a stos,great flying, deep penetrating & easily sharpened.....just my 2 cents worth......

[Bill Carlsen]

Don't know if anyone has seen them yet but the Phantoms now come in 200 and 225 grains. The ferrule is stainless and not aluminum. That to me is a "suped up Bear Razorhead" and stainless to boot. :)

[elkdreamer]

well......i shot another doe tonight......this time i went back to the simmons interceptor 150 that i have had such good luck with.......2 blade ......same thick hunting conditions.......heart shot at 25 yrds.....she went all out for about 70 yrds........pass through and a blood trail you could follow in your sleep.............even in all the overgrowth.....weeds.......and briars. think i'm done experimenting with broadheads. 3 blades.....4 blades..... the simmons interceptor 2 blade will hold its own against any of them with blood trails matching or better...............elkdreamer

[Boho]

way to go elkdreamer. glad to hear of continued success with the simmons.

[James on laptop]

I am in the middle camp here.I don't go out of my way to try and make heavy arrows.I do lean toward heavy broadheads.Not because of weight as much as for size.When you kill something with a broadhead you do it because you cut things.Big broadheads just simply cut more things. :) I try and use the biggest broadhead I can shoot and still feel I can put out the other side on any reasonable bowhunting shot on the animals I hunt.I might use 2 or more different broadheads at the same time while hunting depending on exactly where I am hunting that day.Because of the size and weight of the broadheads I choose most of the time I am shooting arrows in the 450 to 550gn range.With either of these I can make any shots that are normal for the type hunting I do.If I lived and hunted where shots beyond 30 yards might present themselves often, I would possibly look at getting lighter arrows but for most any animal would feel no need for a heavier arrow. :2cents:

[OZ in MT]

James makes a very good point. I'm not a broadhead expert by any means and have taken large animals with most of the popular heads mainly because I just wasn't very conscious about them - accuracy seemed more telling. Large, medium to heavy two-blades are fine where vegetation is heavy and shots are 25 yds or less, but unless you're shooting a lot more trad bow than I can handle (old guy here) they don't really cut it out West. Even for elk, I favor the lighter two-blades (100-125s) and have had very good luck with Magnus regulars and Stingers in that weight range - ie., 340 plus bull with pull weight under 50# at 32 yards. In those situations I'd love to use the heavier heads but I can't get the hitting power and trajectory I need with them at draw weights I can handle.

[elkdreamer]

oz.......nice bull....340+......nice bull..........some how the simmons interceptor shape doesn't react like a wide head on impact.......it's long narrow to wide concave shape seems to just eat its way through anything and they fly like darts.........the chastain i've been using is 56 @ 28 and i'm using the full 28....holding full draw for about 3 sec......[gave up the match stick...ie.earlier post way back]........arrow weight is about 513 with the head......point on at 28 yrds..........35yrds gapping on the top of the back gets the job done......pass throughs are a given...........since md has such a liberal doe limit [allmost unlimited with crop damage permits figured in] ........ i will drop down to my 3d chastain .....47 @ 28 ......shoot the same arrow and report results back.......i suspect that they won't be any different with the simmons interceptor......[using the tiger or land shark heads might be a different story]........the 47 @ 28 bow cast the same arrow allmost the same as the heavier bow.......at least i hold the same........i have shot a lot of deer with the zwickey deltas and sometimes didn't get pass throughs with them........part of that being in hindsight the way i used to shoot ......ie ......probably never comming to full draw in the moment of the hunt therefore never getting the full power stroke of the bow........think i have cured that.........but even then.......when i went with the simmons interceptor shape things changed........they just zip through busting ribs and all.......jerry simmons killed a lot of deer ......... he knew what he was doing when he designed this head for tough country...........i haven't shot an elk with one......plan on trying to change that next year though ........allmost all of my out west time in recent years has be as a guide.......been there and done with that ......time to go back to hunting.............sooooo........i'll try the drop down in power with the simmons and lets see what happens........i'm betting that at 47 lb it will be like a hot knife through butter........elkdreamer

[James Wrenn]

The Simmons is the king of the big blades but it's design while harder to sharpen is great for lighter weight bows.I have never shot a deer with an intecepter that did not pass through even at some less than traditional angles. :) I will tell you something else.People are alway pushing little broadheads for hogs.That big Simmons is hell on a hog.Big hole and lots of blood.Hit them broadside and it don't take much bow either.
I like the 135 glue-ons mounted on adapters the best.It is the same cutting size as the 190s but slightly shorter.The part you lose the weight in is the weakest point on the 190.The long tip area of the 190 can and will bend when you hit rocks comming out the back side of the deer.The 135 is really stronger because of shortening the tip.At 47lbs you can shoot the big 2" treeshark and 2 holes will be the norm on deer with any thing close to a broadside shot.And there will be plenty of blood. :) I have used a bunch of heads and heard all the talk of more blood on 3 and 4 blade hits.Those guys have simply never shot the big simmons or they would not think that way.Even the big snuffers I used to shoot can not best the simmons on blood trails. :2cents:

[BowDonkey]

Well I'm convinced, I just gotta try them. You guys are ruining my bank account. And to top it off Gene Zwickey, Jack Zwickey's first cousin attends our church. Don't know if I'll be able to answer honestly any of his hunting questions anymore. I know ,I'll steer the conversation toward elevated rests and such. :)

[James on laptop]

BowDonkey just let him shoot one of the Simmons and ya'll can go back to talking hunting on the same channel. ;)

[Jim Pritchard]

James:
Have you tried a Redi-Edge type sharpener?
I don't think the concave shape would be a problem.
Jim

[elkdreamer]

i start mine with a redi-edge type sharpener......then go to a diamond rod that simmons sells on their webb sight for about $14 ...........finish on a leather strap ..........they end up cutting you if you even look at them wrong.......i also had great luck using a chain saw file........but gave that up when i bought the diamond rod.......just be sure to wash the rod and keep it lubed with water when you use it..............elkdreamer

[James Wrenn]

The first time is easy with a good rod.After it gets buggered a bit I do like elkdreamer and use the chainsaw file on it first.I have it down pretty good now but still shoot the stos a lot because it is so easy to sharpen and cheaper.I do have one simmons in my quiver for special shots all the time.When I am in a bad place for recovery anything from the side gets the simmons.Under the stand shots I use the stos because I know it is going to come out the bottom if I do miss the spine.I have gone through a dozen broadheads this year and it gets a little costly shooting only the simmons.I have killed stuff with 3 different broadheads this year.lol

[Scooter]

Don't know if you guys have seen this one yet. Simmons has a replacable head version in 100 and 125gr. May have to try one out (I hate adapters).

http://www.simmonssharks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SimmonsSharks.com&Product_Code=SB-225&Category_Code=BroadheadScrew

[Scooter]

Just won 6 of them on ebay. Here is a picture. I like the look.

[Braden]

Those things look pretty wicked, and they are a little wider than my stingers.

[Jim Pritchard]

Looks to me like the blade is a little longer than the Stinger and marginally wider. It may also be a little thicker. My Stingers measure about .045" while these are advertised as .050". I think it pretty much "six of one a half-dozen of the other".
I really have been impressed with the Stinger. I'd try these if I didn't already have plenty 125 gr. Stingers.

:cheers:

[SubconsciousShooter]

That pic of the Simmons, sure looks good. I wonder how strong the ferrule is though... I appreciated the comments about the bending of lightweight broadhead inserts made on another thread.

I think the earlier Simmons head have the blade and ferrule constructed out of one solid piece steel (from looking at the pics) and this uni-construction should be stronger than 2 piece construction.

[Brian L]

I'm a big believer in the Simmon's head as well although I was pretty disappointed with the ferrules on the last couple of sets of glue-ons that I bought. Most had bends around the base of the ferrule and the ferrules themselves weren't very uniform. I'm not certain if this is a common problem with their glue-on heads as I've never had a quality control issue with the screw-on heads.

I really like the Eclipse heads as well. I got my start in traditional bowhunting with the original Journeyman and have always had great results with this design. The Eclipse I feel is even better than the original Journeyman with the Teflon coating. I hear that they are now coming out with a bleeder blade design.

Overall, I like my broadheads around 145-150 grains out of my 55# longbow.

[Hornseeker]

Well, major newbie here, but I am going to chime in also. I've been reading and thinking about broadheads dang near 24/7 for the last few months!!
After reading Ashby's articles I just have to believe in his opinion about mechanical advantage. Sure, if you get a good hit or are just shooting small game like deer or antelope or smaller, alot of this isn't so important, but if you are shooting elk and such and you hit a rib or just hit a tough spot of muscle/gristle, a narrow and longer...but strong head is going to perform where a wide and short head will not. If you havent seen the data on mechanical advantage that he worked up, you should check it out.
Anyhow, I am going to shoot a long narrow single blade, like the Grizzly or STOS or something like that....it'll likely be 145 or 160 grains and I may have it screwed into a brass insert to beef up the weight some.....I'd like to shoot 550 or so, maybe upwards of 650?
Like many have said though, a nice straight flying arrow, hitting where you want it to hit, is the most important thing!

[Pinelander]

Well guys, I now have some screw-in 160 gr. Zwickey Eskimo 2-bladers installed on my Beman 460's. A grand total 415 grain arrow and they fly like a champ out of my 50#er. I will never have ill-confidence in these blades... used the glue-on version for about 15 years. They split rib bone very nicely and provide plenty of blood to trail. Easy to sharpen, hold their edge for a long time, and are TRULY re-useable.

[ahshoot]

hey guys, help me remember the name of a broadhead

the company has its own website, it is cut on contact screw in with vented main blade and comes in 2 or 4 blade, it doesn't advertise that much and isn't in archery catalogs, it has a strong following, I can't remember :mad: and wanted to buy some


Seth

[ahshoot]

found it.........MODOC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyone like these?

[Jim Pritchard]

Not me! I had the blade section break loose from the ferrule when removing
it from a foam target.
Jim

:mad:

[ahshoot]

I hear ya...I wonder if this is a rare thing...this might even happen to a proven performer like zwickey or magnus in 1 out of 100,000 shots...maybe you were the unlucky one to have it happen...I just hate to judge a broadhead based on one instance..now if it happens a lot that's something else.

[SubconsciousShooter]

Guess, I am the man you want...LOL

Let me say that I believe that the single blade 3 to 1 design will penetrate more than any other broadhead on the market. Hands down.

However, if you hit really heavy bone, the blade may curl (as happend to me) and that is not good. However, as responsible archers, we are not supposed to be shooting deer in the vertebrae, etc.

So, as with just about everything in life, there is a good side and a bad side.

Those MADOCS come in three blade thicknesses. I would go recommend the heaviest one which makes the broadhead around 140 grains.

I had trouble sharpening them with a knife sharpener so I would recommend getting yourself a good sharpener as well. Papa Bull wrote a good article on sharpening broadheads on this site.

However, those broadheads are really accurate assuming that an archer has already tuned his equipment well with field points. I have never had the blade separate from the ferrule.

[Braden]

I had read some preliminary reports on a new Snuffer SS in 100 and 125g. It is supposed to be smaller than the original Snuffer, but didn't get any actual dimensions. Has anyone else heard anything?

[SubconsciousShooter]

Anybody know of a good broadhead that will work on Rein deer? Been thinking of a stake out on my roof on Christmas Eve. It has warmed up here recently and I've been thinking that it might be good huntin! I've still got a buck tag....