Snap Shooting is the only way

[Grizzly]

:goodvevil Thought that would get everyone in a talkative state. Thinking about another 3d shoot this weekend, and since turkey season is getting closer, I was wondering if it wouldn't be a good time to switch from my deliberate aiming to a much faster point and release. I won't have the advantage of a full portable blind, just the stakes and camo net to hide behind. I lost a shot at a huge bird a few years ago, cause as I started a nice slow draw, I saw his head turn as he walked in front of me, crossing at about 12 to 15 yards. The old deerhunter in me made me wait, hoping he'd stop for the decoys, which he didn't. Wish I had just made a smooth , rapid draw and fire. Wife is sick of hearing it :)

So, I think this is the time to see what I can do on a 3d coarse by speeding things up. Kinda of like how I had to shoot squirels and rabbits with a gun years ago: not much time to hesitate. Have a nice little 54" Browning Safari I at 43# that pulls oh so smooth.

[Papabull]

If a turkey catches you sneaking the bow back on him, he's outta there!

If you make a really quick snap-draw, your accuracy might suffer, but I don't think it will matter because there probably won't be a turkey in range by the time you hit full draw if you do it fast, either.

But it's hard to tell. Turkeys are strange critters. 9 out of 10 bolt if you flicker an eyelash. 1 out of 10 might just stand there, stretching his neck out peering at you with one eye like he just can't believe something that ugly could be hanging out in HIS woods with HIS hens.

[Ronin]

I just watched my first Fred Bear video since I was a youth. The first thing that caught my eye (besides Fred being left handed), was the fact that as soon as he reached anchor he released. Same thing for the Paul Bruner video I have. Everyone has told me for the last couple of years that I have been doing it wrong and not holding long enough. But, these sucessful archer do the same thing as me. I must admit that I have over the last year and a half gone from a very good shot at 20 yards to an inconsistent one, but I think that has to do with my concentration.

[thisbucks4u]

There is solid thought behind that. But I think your gonna have some problems applying it to the real world situations. Maybe try a different approach in callin them, or have a buddy call for you to direct their amorous attention elswhere. Theres lots of options. I just wouldnt change my style this close to season, thats all.

[Papabull]

I think attributing their bowhunting success to their shooting fundamentals could be flawed logic, though. Other factors like being able to hunt all over all the time and getting to shoot at lots of quality animals during lots of quality hunts might have to be considered as a potential causal effect of their success, too. I've seen some guys who were pretty good shots that were able to draw and release without ever anchoring, but I don't recall seeing many GREAT archers shoot that way.

But... this is an individual sport and we have to go with whatever we thinks works the best. Ultimately, the only real measure of what's best is where the arrows end up in the target.

[Grizzly]

Just kicking ideas around. Before I ironed out a few form flaws, thanks to you guys and those ornery 5 and 4 rings, I pretty much shot as I touched anchor. Be interesting to see what happens now, as I attempt to speed it up a little. I believe my draw shortened, as my anchor changed from the corner of the mouth, were it's been since the mid 60's, to the eye teeth, which lines up the arrow with the eye, so much better. It's amazing how many 10's I've scored since making this simple change. I've also slowed down to confirm straigtness of arrow, and am now much more precise.

Actually, I believe I would have continued a smooth draw on that big bird, and played the shot by ear, depending on what he did. Unfortunately, I stopped my draw, and will never know. :sbrug:

[mjhall]

I've noticed at my stage in all this [new] that I shoot better if I slow things down. I think this is obviously because I don't get into proper form if I hurry. Particularly my drawing elbow [tend to leave it down a little]. I expect that if a person can hit his proper form quickly and consistantly he would be accurate, but that consistant is the most important part. :2cents:


Mike

[Papabull]

I have a theory that successful gunslingers in the old west concentrated more on making their first shot count than trying to get off two before the other guy could get off one. I think there's some value in learning to master the weapon before trying to become handy at being a really quick shot with it. I've know a few really hot pistol shooters who were blazing fast in the speed shooting competitions. Set a pop can up at 20 yards and they'd blow a hole through it with the first shot every time, but they'd invariably use a deliberate, sound, two-hand hold and slowly squeeze off the shot. None of them seemed to feel that fast shooting was the key to great accuracy. Just something I've thought about a time or two. :o

[easternhunter]

I found it most interesting, that over the past weekend, I drew my bow, found anchor and released almost as soon as I found that anchor. I thought for a moment that I was rushing my shots, but realized that I consciously found my anchor first, settled down and released. much quicker than say, drawing a compound, which I am most used to...ie. draw-anchor-breathe-wait a minute-then release....I don't call what I was doing recently, "snap-shooting", but the longer you hold at full draw, the more you are likely to tire and creep, or shake etc. just mho......

[Papabull]

You're right on that, Easternhunter. While it's very important to reach full anchor and have everything steady and precise by the time you release, I think the point of diminishing returns comes rather quickly with hunting weight bows held at full draw. An archer doesn't have to just hang out for awhile with the bow at full draw before he can release it. All that's really necessary is to just hold until it's right - it's quicker than thinking about it, actually.

[Esquire]

I've found that no matter how long I hold, or how badly I shake; No matter where I anchor or how the arrow is spined; No matter even if I have a set nock point...

As long as I burn a hole in the animal it's going to be dead every time. One shot. But for some reason I just can't hit a target :sbrug: .

Go figure!

[Pinelander]

Lots of factors going on with last year's scenario... but if you were "on target" as you were drawing... at that yardage it wouldn't be all that difficult to believe that a release and hit is possible, BEFORE reaching anchor. Believe it? I do... but I also don't subscribe to such methods. You'd be amazed at what you can do with a bow at short range.

PB is right about a turkey's keen awareness of movement... doesn't really matter if it's slow or fast... they're gone!

[Papabull]

Bowhunting turkeys without a blind can really get you :cussing:

[Esquire]

I keep telling you Papa, just burn a hole in em!!

[rallen]

Easternhunter,

I'll agree with you! I'm fairly new to trad bows. Everyone has told me to HOLD my anchor. I've worked on consistent form and have established that pretty well. However, with my new bow, there is no doubt that I am shooting much more accurately when I draw steadily and then just touch my anchor point. If I hold it longer, I am LESS accurate in my shooting! Some may say I'm overbowed; hardly with a 40 # bow! I guess some methods just work better for some. Like I 've seen on here before..."if it works (good) for you, go for it!"

Rallen :shooting:

[tuffshot]

By help, I mean have a friend do the calling for you from a different angle. That may give just a few more milliseconds to get the shot off.

[Pinelander]

I keep telling you Papa, just burn a hole in em!!

Bet them feathers sure would STINK!! :p

[Papabull]

Easternhunter,
"if it works (good) for you, go for it!"

:highfive:

That's the bottom line. It can't be wrong if your arrows go where you want them to go.

[easternhunter]

Yup......i Find That I Don't Even Realize I've Released Till The Arrow Is On Its Way! It Works....i Think I'll Keep It!

[Grizzly]

Don't think I'll change the way I shoot at all. No way am I going to be able to consciously speed things up and hit well. A shot can be speeded up slightly, but not by trying to "go fast", but rather by maybe eliminating some unnecessary pause time. What needs to be addressed is the old hunting instincts and any hesitation about shooting. Deer hunting from stands is pretty much a slow paced, see them coming and get ready for the shot sort of thing, with an occassional surprise appearance to test your abilities. Been years since I went after small game and honed the reflexes to keep up with the little critters. Thats what I think I needed on that big bird.

[Gutshot]

I used to stare at the spot and would draw and shoot much as Mr. Asbell recommends. Starting the draw process from below and when your bow hand is on target, you hit anchor at full draw...release. I was good with this method, but never really would get in the zone to my liking. Then I started fooling around with different shooting styles and have found one that suits me and has dramatically improved my shooting while still shooting instinctive. I guess that Ken Beck, of Black Widow Bows, would be a similar shooter to myself. I start out with my bow hand on target, the bow out and away from me ready to draw. My draw starts out slow, the whole time burning a hole in the spot. The last 4" or so of the draw is somewhat father, not much, but a little. As soon as I hit anchor the arrow's gone! I didn't try to copy anyone. I was just trying to see what worked best for me. I thought I had found the Holy Grail of instinctive shooting. I later learned otherwise.

So much for me being known as the "God Father of Instinctive Shooting". :amen:

[Papabull]

Don't think I'll change the way I shoot at all. No way am I going to be able to consciously speed things up and hit well. A shot can be speeded up slightly, but not by trying to "go fast", but rather by maybe eliminating some unnecessary pause time. What needs to be addressed is the old hunting instincts and any hesitation about shooting. Deer hunting from stands is pretty much a slow paced, see them coming and get ready for the shot sort of thing, with an occassional surprise appearance to test your abilities. Been years since I went after small game and honed the reflexes to keep up with the little critters. Thats what I think I needed on that big bird.

Griz, I have a sneaking suspicion a lot of the gunfighters in the old west who lived long enough to be famous had your philosophy. Better to make damned sure your first shot hits than to be so fast you might be able to get a second shot off before you have a third eye in your forehead.

[easternhunter]

Grizz....i'm Not Sure If You're Saying That We(i) Am Rushing The Shot Or "speed-shooting"...on The Contrary, My Method Seems To Mimic Your's Instead...take Your Time, But Don't Waste Time Trying To Hold At Full Draw Needlessly And Risking Adding Errors Due To Fatigue Etc. I Don't Speed Shoot. I Just Release Once I've Settled In And Am Confident That Holding Longer Will Do No Good. Setting Up For The Shot? By All Means, Especially When There's Game Involved!

Keep Yer Arrow Straight! :)

[Grizzly]

Easternhunter, no disagreement intended. It does seem like we have many similarities in our shooting methods. The speed shooting comment, in my first post was a little tongue in cheek to simply start some discussion on shooting a little quicker while hunting. I did try it in the back yard that night, and knew right away it wouldn't work. As we used to say when trying to shoot pistols real fast, "you can't miss fast enough to win".

Which brings up Papa Bulls gunfighter comments. I got a kick out of that. I wish I'd never gotten hooked on pistols years ago and had stayed with bows. I'd probably hear much better today. Shot alot through the mid 80's and early 90's. Did the Masters in '87and '88and made it to the prize table in the sportsmans division. Had lot's of fun in that 3 pistol event in it's early years. Did alot of bowling pin shooting, and got down to about 2.69 seconds for 5 pins with a .22 pistol, never could get my .45 to go that fast. Had fun helping to get the cowboy shooting going in our area too. Always was in the top ten or better but finally had to quit to save what hearing I still had left.

Perfecting economy of motion, would be one way to describe developing speed. Eliminating unnecessary movement and hesitation. And then there is that zone thing. The first time I experienced everything happening as if in slow motion, and the brains thinking sort of being open for discussion, as you think your way through a shooting problem, while all the time your friends, are saying you are shooting "too fast to hit anything", and afterwards, the targets tell you youve made all clean head shots! When it's over, you just go, whew, that was awsome, as if you really had nothing to do with it. That's probably because the conscious mind that we usally let control everything, can't be allowed to mess this all up.

The "conscious mind" would make a great topic of conversation. I don't think it is capable of operating at that speed. It just gets in the way. Yet we rely on it all the time in daily life. I hate to think how much it may have held us back. It limits so many endeavers. Yet, are we ready as a civilization to operate without it's limiting, controlling characteristics. It seems we haven't even perfected self contol yet, nevermind venturing out into living faith, which is sort of what you do when you go beyond the conscious controlling, limiting mind. Enough already. :2cents:

[sweet old bill]

I guess I am a old fool, but to me it still is pick a spot, draw and release. I try and try to come to a solid ancor and hold. But my mind will not allow me to do this, when I hit the side of my face with the tab it is gone.

I do think for turkey the key is getting the bow up so they do not see any movement. I hunt ground blinds and the major problem is when it is several birds come in, to many set of eyes.

[Lane Puckett]

first thing
If turkeys had a sense of smell none would ever get killed


That said the rest I've tried over the years. I have a bad habit of floating my anchor if I just quick draw and shoot. If I don't float the anchor everything goes quite well. When I'm given the time the slow draw or at least the conscious hold and conscious anchor then I do much better. I believe that there are guys that can and have mastered the quick draw and shoot real well for hunting at all normal hunting ranges.

I also believe that you should practice your form and shooting, after you feel you have it mastered, on ground squirrels or other small game you get a chance to hunt. That has been an eye opener for me.

Lane

[Grizzly]

Lane, I agree with you and don't plan and changing the way I shoot for now. Tried it and it didn't take but a few arrows to realize how inaccurate I was by changing.

Bought some of those screw in bunny busters from ACE and straighted the 1/2 dozen 1916 stalkers I bought a few years ago. I think that might be a good combo to practice with on tree rats and other furry things. I couldn't imagine shooting good carbons into the tree tops, but those recycled aluminums might just be the fun ticket this year.