Crazy thoughts

[DAS]

My wife accuses me of "thinking too much". She is right of course. Here is a thought that has been taking shape in my mind for a while, and I'm wondering how whacked out this sounds to you guys!

I've always loved hunting small game. I started when I was 6. I also enjoy hunting big game. I've to come realize though that much of the appeal for me in hunting big game is not the animals as much as it is the experience of hunting them. Part of the reason that I enjoy big game hunting is the fact that I plan big trips to cool places, camp for days, and hunt with real commitment. Small game on the other hand is usually relegated to lazy afternoons in the back lot. I recently decided to put together a purpose built small game bow. It is light draw, and shoots fast light arrows with custom made tips. It is just as sophisticated as my big game rig, and a blast to shoot.

Here is where it goes sideways though! I'm thinking, what if I made small game hunting a world class event? What if I traveled the world in search of the most elusive small game! A two week fly-in to Alaska to hunt arctic hare and ptarmigan? A booked hunt in southern Arizona to bring down the rare white tailed jackrabbit?? Ringnecked Pheasant hunting in northeastern Oregon? Bullfrogs in Georgia??? Coons in Pennsyvania?? Meerkats in southern India?? Is there any reason why small game shouldn't be given it's due?

I can envision a trophy room full of everything from sage rats to armadillos and nutria!! A shoulder mount of a snarling black footed ferret?? Oh yea!!

Think about it! The seasons are long and the license costs are low. Taxidermy costs are also minimal. Big game hunting is getting harder and harder as habitat shrinks, and land access is becoming a major issue. The roadblocks to planning a great small game hunt are very few. I hunt solo, and the older I get, the thought of packing out a 600 lb elk is becoming less and less attractive! I could carry my limit of eastern red squirrels for 30 miles if need be!

Maybe I'm just not getting enough sleep!!

[Lambow]

Dave, you ain't no crazier than the rest of us, i don't reckon.... Sounds like a good idea to me. I like hunting small game too.... Come on down to Georgia next summer. I know of a pond that has some trophy bull frogs in it. We'll stob a few in the back with some gigin arrows!!! :)


Lambow

[Bill Carlsen]

What kind of fumes does your bow finish give off? Have you checked the eentilations system in your shop? If this even happens do you envision a PY small game book with skull measurements being the mode of comparison? :rolleyes:

[Pinelander]

David, I'm with you... even the thought of having to drag a 300 lb whitetail out of the marshes really weighs heavily on my mind. :p

Nearly got a shot off on a Ringneck this morning that was cawking like a mad rooster that lost his hen. Very beautiful birds and a 35-40# bow would the job on just about any small game. Possums, where's the possums... leave the crowbar at home, LOL.

[van_fl]

Just think you could fill a large room, walls with different cockroach’s from all over the world. Mounting coasts wild be nil-just a pin-:lol:

Just try hitting them sometime :)

[DAS]

Excellent! Bill, I like the P&Y idea too! We'll have to set up a yearly banquet to honer the record setters! It just be the Goat Tuff fumes talking though!:)

[Bob Gordon]

DAS...You sure would have to give the small game rules for P&Y mini-trophy hunts some thought. If you shoot a badger in a cow pasture is it a fenced hunt? hmmm. How about doing in a nut rat in the only tree around, it that a captive critter? How about a feral cat high on wild catnip, is it a drugged animal? See the problems that would have to be worked out in advance? The semi-fair chase rule book looks like it would take a lot of work to get right, and don't forget the TV rights for the Outdoor channel. I can see it now, setting up a tree stand by a dumpster to bust some wharf rats and maybe a unlucky crow or two. Sounds like lots of fun this mini trophy hunting and you wouldn't have any heavy arrows are best stuff or penatration problems to contend with...How about a dangerous critter catagory for rattlers, cotton mouths and Mississippi skeeters?...lol...warf

[DAS]

Bob!:eek: I might NEED a heavy arrow for MS mosquito! I figure even a 275gr arrow would have plenty of momentum for those tough shoulder shots on arctic hare, but those southern mosquitos are tough buggers! Yea, a badger in a cow pasture certainly qualifies as a high fence situation, technically speaking. Maybe you should serve on the judging commitee! I know this sounds funny, but I'm about 3/4 serious, and it wouldn't take much to push me the other 1/4! Following convention has never been my strong suit. All I need is an Outdoor Channel contract, and I'm packing my bags for OZ to hunt platypus!

[Boho]

when I first read this I thought you were gonna anounce that you have come out with a wooden riser DAS. LOL

[Bill Carlsen]

... a good small game outfitter? I bet you don't . This could be a whole new industry...small game trophy hunts. Think about it, a pack-in wilderness hunt for prarie dogs! Who would have thunk it? I wonder if there could ever be such a thing as Quality Small Game Management complete with food plots...and do you think that the use of bait would be allowed? :sbrug:

The more I think about this, Dave, the more inclined I am to agree with your wife. But then again..... ;)

[Kelly in Wisconsin]

My knees won't let me hike the backcountry like I used to and my back puts up quite the fuss when it is sleeping on the ground. Add to that the fact one could go days without seeing an elk and I can no longer back them out on my back, either. Last one I harvested took 6 trips uphill and then 5 trips downhill. If there ever is a next one it might be 10 trips, if I'm lucky.

Seriously Dave, I've had the same thoughts about 3-4 months ago. I really enjoy wondering and pondering(some call it stumpshooting) and bowhunting small game, but I really don't do enough of it. I've got pheasant and quail in the back yard, plus some red fox and I've never even tried to hunt them. That was another thing I was thinking about doing as an alternative, predator calling with the bow. One always has more action when small game hunting, the weather is usually better and one can fling lots of arrows.

Any old arrow and bow will do, so it has to be cheaper, correct? But, then we really don't need a DAS would we? :) We have a bumper crop of jack rabbits this year in Southern Idaho, no season and bag limits and only a nominal small game license is required. Guess, I'll chase some rabbits when I get back home in another 4-6 weeks

Yours for better small game bowhunting, Kelly

[Kelly in Wisconsin]

One of my dream hunts has always been going to Australia to bowhunt pigs, goats, fox, rabbits and all the other feral animals they have. Always though it would be cool to be able to bowhunt year around with no seasons or bag limit restrictions. Someday! There still are places like that. :)

[tuffshot]

You don't need trophys with small game.

Just Whack-um and Stack-um... :D

[Bill Carlsen]

Tuffshot, are you really Ted Nugent? If you are it is OK to come out of the closet and let the world know your true preference...traditonal archery? Believe me, you will feel a great sense of relief when you do. Quit fighting your demons and join us as the person you reasly are. :goodvevil

[James Wrenn]

Well to be honest sometimes on the hunting shows on tv when they are deer hunting in Texas I see big rabbits all over the place.I would love to be able to find a place with rabbits all over. :) I might see a rabbit once a year where I hunt.I would love to do the 'whackem and stackem' on a bunch of them sometimes.When I can catch the treerats working on the ground I like it as much as deer hunting.They are harder to hit but a lot easier to carry. ;)

[tuffshot]

Bill,

Just the "Spirit of the Wild" gives me crazy thoughts sometimes. :)

:shooting:

[DAS]

James,

I don't think small game hunting is any less challenging than big game, especially if you add wing shooting to the mix, but yea, the pack out is a whole lot easier!

[James Wrenn]

To me it is more challenging than deer hunting. :) Hog hunting is about like small game hunting since you go get them instead of waiting for them. ;) Heck I started hunting with chickens.I love small game.The wing shooting would be tough for me.I have never done it but a couple of times with a shotgun (doves) and sucked at it then.

[Larry Hatfield]

back in the fifties here in washington there were small game patches that were awarded to people that liked to sew things on jackets and vests.
never sewed any on, but collected about every patch available because i like to hunt and all animals and birds present some kind of challenge.
some of the better hunts i've had were bobcat and coyote without dogs or predator calls, and jump shooting ducks has to be the hardest thing i've ever done.
another thought in passing is that some species of small game are disappearing at an alarming rate. even black tailed jacks are regulated here now because there have been huge population crashes.
it would be a good thing to do some of this kind of hunting before the opportunity is gone!
dave, don't pass up the tiny deer in laos/thailand! they qualify as small game for sure.
i'm all for the line of thought you have taken!
larry

[greenghost]

DAS,

It seems to me that it is generally false that what we hunt is determined by how challenging it is. I remember an article by G. Fred Asbell about 10 or so yrs ago in Traditional Bowhunter in which he argued that the reason we hunt "trophy" deer is the challenge. But that is false. Consider a specific case. You glass a very large buck bedded down in some brush in a very stalkable location and a doe bedded down on a bunch of scree in a place that would be incredibly challenging to stalk. Which deer do you choose, assuming both are legal? The answer, and I submit that this is a nearly universal answer, is the buck. Nobody would choose the challenge of stalking that doe and everybody would be thanking their lucky stars that they got an easy shot at the big buck. The point is that if it was the challenge that was driving us, we wouldn't choose to hunt big bucks/bulls, but rather whatever animal happened to be the most difficult to bag in a given situation (be it buck, doe or fawn).

The challenge issue is way overplayed, IMO. (Heck I don't even really hunt with the recurve because of the challenge--it is something else, much harder to put my finger on.)

But if I am right, then what does determine what we hunt (bucks vs. does or big game vs. small game)? A large component, I think, is some sort of cultural ideology. And if that is so, then I think your proposal is, in all seriousness, viable--assuming you can develop the cultural ground swell.

[Ray Cover]

David,

I don't think your whacked. I think its a good idea. Some of my favorite hunting as a kid was small game (still is). I got to hunt deer once I was old enough and that was only for about 10 days a year. I spent 9 -10 months hunting other stuff. Small stuff.

Frankly it was much easier to hit a deer at 75yds with my 30-30 than it was to hit a squirrel through the eyes at 75 yds with my anschultz .22 ( Ya, dad made sure we had nice toys) :highfive:

There was a thread over on LW talking about the most challenging game. Three or four of us voted for the crow. If you have ever varmit hunted crows you know that a country crow is a hard kill. Some small game can be as skiddish as the spookiest mountain goat and presents a much smaller kill zone for sure. :)

Frankly, once I get good enough I will probably spend much more time after small game with my bow than big game.

BTW my dad is planning an archery rabbit hunt Thanksgiving morning at his house. If your in the area you would be welcome to join us to start your quest. :)

[Papabull]

Yeah, I think it's whacked. Not the whole idea, of course, but just the part about travelling all over the world to find the most elusive small game. Just start with the mountains of SouthEastern Ohio and ruffed grouse. If you hold off on your world travels until you bag one on the wing, you'll save yourself a whole LOT of traveling money. :D

And if you feel a little more challenge is necessary, just keep hunting those alder thickets until you bag a woodcock, too.

That should keep a fellow busy hunting for arrows for a long, long time. :lol:

I like squirrels. You stand a reasonable chance of bagging enough in one day to make a decent meal.... and watching them cuss you out in the middle of a backflip makes missing them almost as much fun as hitting 'em.

[Phil]

To put some "meat on the bones" of Dave's idea, I was in a restaurant last week .. for a starter I had Pigeon breast braised in red wine..cost 8 pounds...that $14.40 US. In a good game butchers shop, a brace of wild Pheasant will set you back around 12 pounds ... thats....$21.60 US ...fresh dressed wild rabbit.. 3.3 pounds or $6.00 each and a brace of Partridge around $26.00 .....not such a whacky idea now eh....

[Warped Arrow]

I like the idea!!! More shootin, more fun, and good eats to boot! One problem though....who is gonna take a Groundhog Guide seriously????

[DAS]

This thread has brought out some really interesting points. I agree with Greenghost in that the challenge of a hunt is only one aspect of what makes it enjoyable. Personally, I'd rather spend an afternoon reeling in a stringer full of crappy, than days in the freezing rain to catch one big Salmon. The connection with nature is by far the biggest attraction. That is why I also backpack with my dogs. The thought of spending money to travel the world for small game doesn't bother me because it is the experience that I'm really hunting.
A guide service for varmints probably wouldn't be a big money maker, but it is one more excuse to get out and do something. If anyone wants to sign on for a high country marmot hunt, I know just the place! During the day there is fishing in beautiful mountain lakes. You have to backpack into the Eagle Cap wilderness and the good lakes are above 7,000 ft, so eat your wheaties!:)

[Passthru]

Dave,

Did you see the thread on tradgang about the south Texas rabbit hunt? Now that looks like fun. The ranch was loaded with them. I'd have to add that to my list.

I was really looking forward to stillhunting squirrels this year. Guess what, no squirrels this year. Some kind of famine wiped them out. I've seen less this year than I usually see in a day. One thing Southern Indiana usually has plenty of is squirrels. I've had some shots this season, but I let them go. We need the breeding stock.

Hopefully they will be back next year.