Etiquette for this forum

[Cato]

The Christian forum has been afforded primarly to those who believe that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God, that Jesus Christ was the promised Messiah, the ultimate sacrificial lamb who lived a sinless life, and willfully offered Himself as a sacrificial atonement for my sin, and our sin. We believe all this based upon Scripture, and that based upon Scripture He physically died, was physically raised from the dead, demonstrating His power over death and all creation, and that only by asking Him to come into our lives as our Lord and Savior, can we be restored to fellowship with the Father and have eternal life.

Anyone who comes into this forum is invited to freely discuss the questions and issues of our faith, but only if they do so understanding that they have come into our chapel knowing that these are our beliefs, and therefore should do so with a genuine desire to exchange ideas in a courteous and respectful manner. We would not enter your home as an invited guest with a hostile or disrespectul attitude towards things you hold dear, and so we ask that you give any and all who participate here the same courtesy.

Please bear in mind that this particular forum will have a lower tolerance for posts or participants who cannot bathe their comments in humility and courtesy for others. We hope you understand, and enjoy the opportunity we have been given here.

Cato

[Cato]

The thread is here to clarify the boundries of the forum and to make it clear we will not allow posts that are confrontational, abrasive, or offensive to another person. Nor will we hesitate to address topics that depart from theology taught in the Word of God.

It is not here to stiffle honest, sincere discussion. I hope this clarifies any confusion. If any one wishes to discuss this, feel free to send me a PM.

Cato

[String Tracker]

ok I have a question.



I am not a "christian" but I am a wiccan. no im not into "witchcraft". from why I understand the first post that I cannot post anything other than "christian" beliefs?

[Cato]

String Tracker,

You are welcome to read and post, within the parameters mentioned above. The primary purpose of this forum is to afford Christians an opportunity to share their beleifs, discuss issues of interest, and discuss the Christian faith among themselves, and with those who come here with a sincere interest in learning more of the Christian faith and why we believe what we do. If you have sincere questions about why we believe what we believe, and can ask them in a respectful manner (I assume that would be the case), they would be appropriate. However, the forum is not the appropriate place to discuss, or advocate other belief systems. You may want to consider that on one of the other forums.

Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss this further.

Cato

[String Tracker]

so your saying this is a "christian" site and Im not welcome here. thats fine.

[BLACK WOLF]

String Tracker,

You are welcome here...unless you already know you are going to disrespect the rules here...and based on your last comment it would appear you already know what you would do.

Is there something you would like to learn or discuss about Christianity?

Ray ;)

[String Tracker]

I didnt want to "disrespect" the fourm. I found something today that I felt that if there are any other pagan/wiccan people on here would enjoy. its a prayer for bowhunters. since its not christian then no need to post it if its not allowed.
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no offense but Ive had My share of churches down my throat:

1- had a 1st assistant pastor ask me not to return to the church. during bible study I asked questions. and then they would be answered. then I ask a quesiton on that. needless to say after 5 weeks 2 hours each versus the standard 1 hour he gave up. we were still only half way threw lesson 1 and should have been on lesson 5.

2- had a so called preacher whos church was in her basement look right at me and my then wife and tell me there was no grounds what so ever for divorce. when I asked "then why are you divorced?" I was ordered out of the church and off her property. Do as I say not as I do????????
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needless to say I never really believed in written word.. I believe in what I can see, touch, hear, and smell. Wicca allows me to believe in what ever I choose. personally I believe in the Goddess "Mother Earth" and that she provides life in everything that lives. The grass I walk on, the water that I drink, the air to breathe from and all the wonderful smells of the world. I also believe that Herne the Hunter who is also known as the Great Horned God provides me with animals to hunt and to provide for my family.

Im far from trying to bash any religion on here. I am merely trying to follow the rules and if its not wanted then fine. no need to post it to offend the fourm.

[Warped Arrow]

First off let me say that I too follow a different path.

I as one respect all faith and can discuss them in an honest and open way. I do NOT belive that one should post in a Christian forum if they can not do this. I have posted here before and was met with open arms. I am here in Trad Talk to learn, not to Chastise. If one were to leave the forum because of the fact that they didnt belive as others do, then this site would cease to exist. I think in all honesty we can say that not everyone on Trad Talk has the same values or beliefs.

Also let me say that if one were to go to a Christian forum and "stirr the pot" so to say, then of course they would feel as they were not wanted. I belive that all of us, Christian and non can agree on one thing....The Christian Forum is just that. It is a place for those that follow the Christian path to learn and share and to grow. If you have decided that you are a non Christian and that you wont hear nothing else, so be it, post somewhere else. But DO NOT bash the Christians!!! The Wicca remember the Burning Times and feel that they are attacked when ever anything is said out of context in any way. The Christians can remember the Holy Wars and do the same thing.

I feel like this, If you can play nice and not take it the wrong way then your OK by me.

If I have offended anyone or stepped on any toes I do apologise. That was not my intent. I wanted to mearly say that this is a Christian forum and that if you are not a Christian then expect to feel a bit uncomfortable.

PS...Cato, basically I agree to what you said in the first place. Keep up the good work

[BLACK WOLF]

String Tracker,

I feel for ya man. Just because a person claims to be a Christian doesn't mean they will act or handle situations as they are suppose to. Unfortunately, being human means being imperfect. We all have our problems and we all expose them to each other from time to time. I'm sorry for how you must feel.

I don't believe any Christian should feel more superior than anyone else, who may not have the same belief as we do. We did not get saved because we had superior intelect or anything similar. The only reason we believe we have been saved is because our God loved us SO much He sent His only begotten Son to be a sacrifice for our disobedience. It isn't based on good works or a person just trying to be good, but it is available to all who believe.

I think Warped Arrow summed it up nicely for you. Maybe hearing it from someone else other than a Christian will help you understand...We are not here to burn you at the stake.

Ray ;)

[Esquire]

String Tracker,

I'm sorry to hear about your bad experiences with churches. If it helps, I can tell you that christians have not cornered the market on bad actors! They seem to crop up everywhere. The important thing is that you don't give in to the temptation to judge the claims of Christianity and of Christ by the behavior of the worst of its adherents (or His followers)!

Keep seeking truth, and testing what you believe against logic, experience and reality, and I am confident that we will have much to discuss!

On this forum, we have discussed christian orthodoxy and done so in the context of other religious paradigms. We will do that sort of thing as often as there is a respectful questing after truth.

But these guys have said it well. This is not the appropriate forum to simply hang around promoting another belief system.

Stick around and ask the hard questions. You won't get the bums rush for doing so. Any honest seeker of truth is welcome hereabouts. I don't have even one scintilla of all of the right answers but I'm not afraid to face the tough questions. Some churches are, I recognize that. Some christians aren't worth much, when you get right down to it. They make a terrible example. In fact I include myself in that number. It's sort of the human condition, apart from God. But my own pitiful grasping after truth does not reflect poorly on the truth, just on me!

Hope to see you around...

Mike

BTW, I appreciate your taking time to ask about your post in advance, given the context. Thanks for doing that.

[George Tsoukalas]

String Tracker, I believe Washington lived and was the first president of the US. I didn't directly experience his life through any of my senses. I came to this belief because I read of his existence in a book. Similarly, I believe Jesus is my Savior because I read of His Resurrection in the Book. I would like for you to experience His saving grace first hand but that is your choice. Though the alternative (separation from God) to me is devastating. George

[robk]

religion and being a christian is two different things. religion makes it where your to follow their way of christian belief and then there are those like me who have a relationship with god and his beloved son jesus christ.
oin religion your told to focus on what is taught by that religion and not to believe any others. in my relationship i have my beliefs and yes i was baptised when i was 12. after vietnam i had a different view of religion and i had different thoughts about what i was brought up.
today i know there is a supreme being and someday i hope to have a place with him in paradise but we shall see but with tall the different religions you have to figure out where you want o be and if it is right for you
rob k

[Garry]

Hi Rob,

I agree that being religious and being a Christian are not the same.

Religion is something man created; Christianity is something God created.

God's letters to the seven churches in Revelations 2.1 - 3.22 speaks to this issue. Of the seven churches only the church in Philadelphia was found perfect before God. The church in Sardis has a few names who have not defiled their garments but the rest of the members of the church in Sardis and all the members in the other 5 churches are told to repent.

[TBHNTR]

String Tracker... I've met some "christians" like that myself. As I say, "The only problem with Christianity is that its practiced by people."

Given that, I still became a Christian after reading C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity (you should pick up a copy)... that was over 20 years ago. Alternatively, I hear that Lee Strobel's The Case For Christ is very good.

[Gary Rake]

dear string tracker:

i can't speak for other "christians", only for myself. far as i'm concerned you can share your beliefs like the man said as long as we treat each other with respect. i promise i will. just do me a favor and promise not to try and drive wicca down my throat...fair enough?

i have met two very bad, (translation=evil) wiccans. they both have consistently attempted to put curses on me and my family. Jesus said that we should bless those that curse us so i do and i pray for their salvation. i also ask God to turn the curses into blessings which His Word says He will do as well.

but please note, i don't beleive all wiccans necessarily are bad, including yourself..just like i don't believe that all christians are automatically good. for sure i can't accept as true for me your wiccan beliefs, which by the way seem to include forms of a god you named "hermes" i think, and i am presuming you haven't seen him either, yet you seem willing to believe in him.

but i am willing to discuss those differences and concepts if you like.

i am saddened by your experiences with other christians, i've had a few like that myeslf. bet you will have a few like that with occassional wiccans as well if you run into enough of them too. but the issue isn't good or bad members of any group...the issue is Jesus Christ. the sad thing about christians behaving badly is that they misrepresent God's love to us and even make an excuse for us not to trust God. God is not a christain, He's God, the Creator, the King of every king that ever lived or ever will...He's the central issue, not someone's bad behavior. God's love is the issue we each have to face in our lives. much of life says to us that God doesn't really love us. the devil works very hard to ensure that we get that idea firmly in our hearts. but God keeps on loving us anyway. He knows we are broken, imature, but he still says "I want you, I love you and want you to be with me forever." He wants every human being to be with Him...after all He made us in His image. His love is so strong that no matter what we've done He still wants us. He'll deal with the cleaning us up stuff later, but He still wants us. Unbelievable!

From the sounds of the edge in your writing i suspect that you have had more souring experiences in life than just the few chritsians you mentioned...that's sad and i'm sorry that happened to you. but no matter what has happened, Jesus still loves you, in spite of everything and He isn't giving up on you no matter if you even hate Him, He's not deterred by that. His love for you is still bigger than the ocean, wider than the east is from the west, never ending and always there for you...if you want to reach out for Him.

Stay safe, shoot straight,
Hope to hear from you again,
Gary

[Martin Farrent]

Personally, Gary, I fully agree that one can't hold the behaviour of individual believers against their particular faith.

I sometimes draw the line when it comes to religious leaders, however. To my mind, the behaviour and public thoughts of the Pope (for example) cannot be divorced from my overall perception of the Catholic creed. Given his 'constitutional' role in his particular community, I feel that he also defines that community to a significant extent. Perhaps you can sense that I find many of his ideas a little obnoxious.

Which brings me to the topic of respect for other faiths. Using the same example, the Pope, within (sometimes rather narrow) limits, is a proponent of religious freedom - which he sees as mutual tolerance among religious belief systems. Like many, however, he often appears to exclude atheists and agnostics from that rule and considers their attitudes fair game for open abuse. This is a somewhat common attitude among believers of any creed, I'm afraid.

I'm an agnostic - but I'm not empty, confused and unethical. I wish more believers would respect this, whatever their faith.

Best,

Martin

[OZ in MT]

Respect of the mutual variety comes easier to those of us who see our faith as a thoughtful, spiritual journey, Martin. Yours and mine must necessarily be different, but all honorable paths deserve respect, and in my view most end in the same place. Less Christian soldiers and more Christian charity is a recipe I like and believe in. God bless.

[Martin Farrent]

The way I perceive Catholicism, Oz (and I'm sorta surrounded by it), there's very little thought of a spiritual journey. Rather, there are clear-cut ideals and rules... and not much of a problem when one fails to meet the challenge. Yet despite the way they embrace and accept their own imperfection, many Catholics certainly do look down on those of other creeds and faiths with a type of pity. And to them, atheism and agnosticism are simply emptiness - most likely to be filled with 'sin'.

This kind of spiritual arrogance is bred, I suspect, by a sense of certainty derived from the authoritarian structure and culture of the Roman church.

I'm generalising, of course, but that's the way it seems to work in the largely Catholic part of Germany I live in.

Best,

Martin

[OZ in MT]

Indeed, Martin. It's most interesting to me that freedom of choice, most certainly one of God's greatest gifts to man, is something many Christians can't wait to escape. And there seems to be two varieties of these escapists, those who simply forfeit God's gift of choice to accept denominational dogma and those who journey assiduously to that place where they choose to give up choice because they have made their final choice: to always have a relationship with God. I find these groups very similar to those who are comfortable with arranged marriages, on the first hand, and those who would rather choose their life partners, on the second hand.

I don't personally make any value judgments about which method is "right", but simply see this dichotomy among us as irrevocably human. Does this make me a "humanist?" Arguably so, but I see no contradiction between that and my faith.

[Martin Farrent]

It's most interesting to me that freedom of choice, most certainly one of God's greatest gifts to man, is something many Christians can't wait to escape.

Oz, I find this especially true among those who - after years of doubt and searching - almost blindly return to the faith of their childhood. There's an element of resignation in the way they do it.

I'm not talking of people who re-discover faith in a deeper and more individual sense, but of those who weary of the search and simply return to tradition, because they once perceived certainties there.

Catholicism, with its strict boundaries between clergy and laiety, encourages the accompanying spiritual and intellectual idleness - as much as it feeds on it.

The spiritual superiority complex such people sometimes display is hard to stomach. At least I know that I'm honestly interested in the truth, agnostic though I may be. I'm not taking the shortcut of obedience to custom and flimsy doctrine. Tempting though it may be to hear the voice of God, I certainly shan't satisfy my eagerness by confusing it with the voice of a parish priest.

Best,

Martin

[Sam Dunham]

Religion is man made, a specific unified system. Christianity is made by the one who has Christ Jesus his son and our Savior at his side now, living and waiting to return again, who makes propitiation for us daily hourly and each second. The almighty all knowing alpha and omega is the one who created the heavens and the earth and all the things that inhabit them and loves us all regardless of what we believe. However, you must know and except Christ Jesus to truly know Him. How do I know this? because I read it and opened my heart and excepted him, now I can talk to him and be forgiven daily, He ansewers my prayers and I have the Holy spirit living inside of me. I ask him Daily to control the things that I say, think or do. But I still sin? yes but I have the spirit to point this out to me. Most religions have one thing in common, You can go to the grave of the one who started it, and see the inscription of the persons name. Yes you can go to Christs tomb also, but he is not there, he is risen. Praise his name.

[Sam Dunham]

Whats up? I came over here and nobody is here! I posted a long time ago.Should I call for availabilty of bowshootin believers or what? anyway I beleive that a blood tie cannot be broken. If my daughter was in jail, it would affect our fellowship, but not our relationship. I could not make her not be my daughter. She's my blood! What did Christ do? which made you free from sin? did you accept his gift? If you did, and was born again- Believed, repented, accepted. How then could you not be his family? You are, and always will be. The question you should ansewer is this- What is my Fellowship like with him? Because you cannot undo the Blood tie. Sam out

[Esquire]

Sam,

Be patient with us, my friend. We will have more time when flu and hunting season is behind us!

I am here...

Mike

[Sam Dunham]

OK Blessings to all. Sam out

[Biblethumpncop]

Merry CHRISTmas everyone!

[R H Clark]

A Merry CHRISTmas from me also.I am a Christian.I am active in a church.I believe what the bible teaches.I'll try to keep an eye on what is going on here so I can share with my bow shooting brothers.

[Tailhook]

Wow,
Where is everyone? After getting close to 60 years without touching a bow, I am now immersed and have met some wonderful people. I was raised a "Christian", went to Church, got my God and Country award as a scout, drifted away for many years but, never forgot or doubted in the presence of God. Interestingly, throughout those years and a number of churches, I knew that Jesus was crucified, died and rose, the importance of this was never really stressed. I heard lots of nice sermons with Biblical quotes but, the issue of salvation was not really addressed. Then, in my 50's, I was in training to be an instructor in a well respected baseball school. We did weekend sessions all over the country and on each Sunday had a voluntary chapel before the training sessions began. At our training session, Brian Doyle, gave a chapel on the Holy of Holies, the one place each year a chosen Rabbi could enter, behind a veil which was of material which was very high and thick (I don't have the details and would be surely wrong but, was told like many feet high and inches thick). A rope was attached to his ankle (this is what was what I was told and I'm sure could be disputed). If the rabbi was not "pure", he didn't get to talk to God but, ended up dead, so this was how he would be extracted from behind the veil. Other than this and a few of the prophets and say Abraham (I'm sure there are others), no one could get in a 2 way conversation with God. At the moment Jesus died on the cross, the veil was torn in 2, from the top to the bottom (this part is the only part I have actually read, the rest is either in other parts of the Bible or Biblical history). When I heard this, finally, after 50+ years, I realized the importance of our Lord and Savior. Up til then, to me, he was a lot of sermons about water and wine, bread and fish, a blind guy, walking on water, etc. At that moment, I realized, his death gave us (those who have been fortunate enough to accept him) direct and eternal access to God. The cool thing about it is, it is free and easy and it has no basis whatever on who you are or what you have done. Forgiveness and eternal life is just one small step away. I am forever thankful for that moment that opened my eyes. One of my simple prayers is that more unknowing souls will be reached and will accept the invitation. It saddens me to think that there are lots of Church going "Christians" who have not yet been introduced to salvation. To me it is simple.
Read the manual and follow the directions. "I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me". There are many religions that come up with many requirements to be a "Christian". God only has one, accept his son and you are "in free". I did my best to not offend anyone and did not proof this for typos. Hopefully this will spark some interest in some "fence sitters" and some others like me. Like I said, it took me over 50 years and some tough times to get here but, the internal peace I now have was worth the wait. BTW, I do not have a Church but, find myself daily praying with "strangers" who have found salvation. As I was told one night by a stranger who needed a few dollars, when I told him I didn't have a Church, he told me "You are the Church". So now, my Church is sometimes at Walmart or like yesterday, in front of the Post Office. "Wherever two or more are gathered in his name". It amazes me how the Lord puts his children in my path almost everytime I leave the house. It is sad that in so many cases, "religion" pushes people away from Christianity.
Best regards and God Bless
Wally

[dbake]

Good post Tailhook- I agree with you 100 percent!

Don

[stevelong]

WELL SAID WALLY, & thanks.

[mwa]

I didnt want to "disrespect" the fourm. I found something today that I felt that if there are any other pagan/wiccan people on here would enjoy. its a prayer for bowhunters. since its not christian then no need to post it if its not allowed.
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no offense but Ive had My share of churches down my throat:

1- had a 1st assistant pastor ask me not to return to the church. during bible study I asked questions. and then they would be answered. then I ask a quesiton on that. needless to say after 5 weeks 2 hours each versus the standard 1 hour he gave up. we were still only half way threw lesson 1 and should have been on lesson 5.

2- had a so called preacher whos church was in her basement look right at me and my then wife and tell me there was no grounds what so ever for divorce. when I asked "then why are you divorced?" I was ordered out of the church and off her property. Do as I say not as I do????????
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needless to say I never really believed in written word.. I believe in what I can see, touch, hear, and smell. Wicca allows me to believe in what ever I choose. personally I believe in the Goddess "Mother Earth" and that she provides life in everything that lives. The grass I walk on, the water that I drink, the air to breathe from and all the wonderful smells of the world. I also believe that Herne the Hunter who is also known as the Great Horned God provides me with animals to hunt and to provide for my family.

Im far from trying to bash any religion on here. I am merely trying to follow the rules and if its not wanted then fine. no need to post it to offend the fourm.
String Tracker your just where I was a few years ago. Lost! And you justify being Lost, by comparing yourself with this, or that person who was, or was not this, or that.
1st being saved does not make you perfect, nor even a non-sinner. It just means the Blood of Christ has covered your sin.
2nd Your thinking isn’t any different from any other lost man that has not accepted Christ as Savior.
Rom 1:21-23, 25
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
When I was lost, a man came to me and tried to tell me about the Lord, but I thought I was way to smart for that. Last thing he said to me was I’ll be praying for you. A month later I was saved. Don’t justify yourself by putting down someone else, you won’t be judged by them, but by the Word of God which liveth and abideth forever.
P.S. String Walker, I’ll be praying for you!!! :)