Warf Speed

[Chip Cavin]

I recently entered the world of the warfed (Thanks Bob!). Bob put together a sweet bow for me: Black bear riser with wood/glass Hoyt gold medalist limbs. The bow is about 50# at my 27" draw. I am shooting beman 500's with 125 grain points. Total arrow weight is about 380 grains.

The bow sure seems fast to me with flat arrow trajectory to at least 30 yards. Well I shouldn't have done it, but I shot it through a chrono the other day at a local archery shop...twice. The chrono said 177 and 176 fps. I was kind of surprised. The bow sure seemed to shoot faster than that. I was expecting somewhere in the 190's.

Well anyway, I couldn't be more pleased with this bow as a target bow. But I also want to hunt whitetails and pigs with it. With my 380 grain arrows decked out with two-blade Magnus Stingers, am I getting enough performance out of this bow to send an arrow through a whitetail or average sized porker at distances up to 30 yards?

Chip

[thisbucks4u]

Chip,
If you had all the confidence in that bow before you chronograped it, why shouldnt you now? The utmost important thing when hunting is to ensure a precisely place shot. Period. If you can do that repeatedly, you are good to go. If you cant no amount of speed in the archery world is going to make up for that.
But if you are seriously concerned about speed, depending on your draw length, maybe stepping up a few grades in limbs might be an option for you.

Im using PSE Zone 40 pound short limbs right now (carbon/maple). On my protec netting 52 pounds with a 500 grain arrow im getting 200 fps. The same limbs on a jennings black lightning (same as your bear) netting 49 pounds the same arrow goes about 180 fps. My draw length is about 29.5 inches and growing. Hope this helped some.

[van_fl]

Chip
With my 50lb warf shooting a 336gn (I think) arrow and with a 226 fps speed (draw 30.5/8) I would take on hogzilla. (With a good BH). With the ability of the warf to put the pointy thing where you want it time after time, alone adds about 100lbs and 200fps of confidence. :highfive:

[James Wrenn]

My Warfbow shoots a little better than that.I shoot around 185 with a 450gn arrow when cranked down to 50lbs.I draw a little past 27' with it.I think the beemans would be mid 190s but I have not shot them much.I guess the difference might be the limbs.I have the short Hoyt Vectors on my Jennings riser.The main thing is being able to hit what you shoot at above all the rest and the Warfbow makes that pretty easy.jmo

[the other DWS]

Sheer arrow speed is not the end goal, at least for me I have warfs that shoot real fast, but the one I am most comfortable with and shoot most happily is one of the less speedy ones.
I have found too that chrono-ing arrows can be an iffy thing, out of a 12 arrow string you can get a spread of as much as ten or more fps with minute changes in anchor or release. My fastest bows set up for sheer speed are close to 30 fps slower when actually set up for quiet hunting

[DAS]

James
I've heard some stretches about draw length, but that takes the cake! :jk:

Seriously, I agree very much with the statements above. Speed is just one component of an outstanding bow. Stability, balance, smoothness, and lack of vibration all combine to make a bow that you can shoot well. Those aspects are as much a part of the "warf" experience as speed. Speed without all that isn't worth much.

[Pinelander]

Chip, only the knuckle-draggers are getting 190+ fps with 50#. I can't speak for the piggies 'cause I've never hunted them. When it comes to whitetails, I've been slicing through 'em at 170-180 fps with 50-55# recurves for a very, very long time... with woodies at that. I believe those Bemans will do the job like a hot knife though butter. :)

You said it yourself... "couldn't be more pleased with this bow as a target bow." I think that alone will make more difference in your hunting success than any other thing (well, maybe with exception of woodsmanship).

I have a Warfer with 40-43# limbs and would not hesitate hunting and putting deer down with it. We could talk poundage, speed, arrow material, point weight, FOC, etc, etc. until we're blue in the face. In the end, it all boils down to one thing.... putting that well-tuned, straight-flying, sharp pointy thing in the boiler... the rest is sausage & snack stix. ;)

[Lane Puckett]

Chip,
One thing you might consider. Take your old setup and run it through the chrono.

The real thing to consider here though is how the bow shoots for you and what you can make it do. AND how quiet is it.

I've made self bows and they don't shoot anywhere near that speed yet have been solid on all sorts of game.

I think if I remember right about 90% of the custom bows tested in one of the bow books I have were in the 175 to 180 range including the Bear Kodiak. I can double check if you are interested.

Speed is nice, but it is the total package you are hunting with that counts.

What strand and type string are you using?

[Desert Archer]

Chip, only the knuckle-draggers are getting 190+ fps with 50#.

Piney, now you've gone and hurt this knuckle-dragers' feelings (LOL). I'll have you know I only get 41# out of my Warf bow at my 32.5" draw and I can still get 194 fps with a 360g arrow.

It was going to be my cheeter bow for 3D but I got so fed up with 3D shoots (lots of standing and waiting to shoot too few arrows) that I'm not even shooting the Warf anymore. Kind of sad, then you go an pick on me just 'cause I wear 37" sleeves (this keeps getting funnier!).

On a more serious note, Chip you might consider trying another pair of limbs. That performance is probably adequate for most of what you want to do but I bet there is a set of limbs out there that will give you better down range ballistics (thought I'd just throw that word in for fun - grin).

Dave

[Bob Gordon]

Chip...With those W&W Synerzy limbs I think you should be getting more arrow speed than that as those are very fast limbs. I would try another cronograph and see what you get. Your arrow selection sounds about right and the string is also about what you need. Those speeds seem a little on the light side for your combination. Also carefully measure your draw length and bow weight at that length...warf

[1bjd]

Being able to hit where you aim is way more important than the speed it gets there. Broadhead type and sharpness is what kills but you have to hit in a vital area. Smooth shooting forgiving bows are more important than speed to me. :2cents: John

[thisbucks4u]

For the record I am not a knuckle dragger. Im only 5' 11". I just have good form. LOL

[DAS]

This is just an observation, but I wonder how many people really know how fast 200 fps is? Or 225 fps? Until I got interested in ILf conversions, I was shooting a good quality wood/glass bow that I always thought was a good shooter. I never even chronographed it until I got a warf bow to campare to and I was shocked to find out it was only shooting 165 fps! I have a short draw which accounts for some of that, but the point is that I doubt there are very many production or custom bows that truthfully shoot over 180 fps at 28" of draw. It's easy to get skewed ideas about speed when you read posts about the speed that some are getting, but really, anything over 180 is pretty darned fast. Anything over 200 would shock most people who haven't seen it. Time spent with a chronograph is a real eye opener for most.
just a thought

[thisbucks4u]

Anything over 200 would shock most people who haven't seen it. Time spent with a chronograph is a real eye opener for most.

Show em 250+ and see what kinda looks you get.

[Heathen]

Warf brought up a good point with chronographs. Try another one and see if the results aren't better.
My experiences with cheap chronographs, wasn't a good one.

Jim

[Chip Cavin]

Thanks for all of the responses. I guess part of me can't let go of the "I must hunt with a heavy arrow" line of thinking. And when I saw that my warf setup may not be quite as fast as it seemed according to the chrono that I used, I grew kinda concerned about penetration using my rather light arrow.

Bob, the limbs that I got from you are the Hoyt Gold Medalist not the W&W. I am using the 8125 string that you provided with a partial set of cat whiskers. I also put some limbsavers about 3 inches from the riser. The limbsavers did not seem to change arrow speed to my naked eye, but it probably impacted performance at least a little bit.

The bow is nice and quiet, and it still seems really fast to me. It is by far my best shooting (most accurate) setup. I guess I just wanted to make sure that I am not being irresponsible by using such a light arrow going 177 fps on deer and pigs. Thanks for the confidence booster.

Chip

[Chip Cavin]

You guys are right about trying another chrono. I'll see if I can find one.

[the other DWS]

I agree with Bob, Chronos can get messed up, especially if it is at a range where the shooters are using it without staff supervision.
I would also respectfully suggest that only one or two arrows is not an adequate sample. So many little things can cause an arrow to loose velocity. I've seen a 20fps drop with just a slight touch of the string to my sleeve--with a commensurate drop in arrow impact point. Then there is grip shift, slight elbow collapse, shift in anchor, less than clean release. It is amazing how form can break down when we are trying to shoot through the range' s chrono window. It's hard to keep a relaxed natural form. I know I am conscious of making sure not to damage it and it distracts. It also puts an alien visual distraction right in front of the arrow. I have watched a lot of guys shooting through the chrono (both trad and compound)and most of'em very do not shoot the same way they do otherwise

Perhaps a really good formal target shooter with excellent form and a light weight bow could put together a 12 arrow string with consistant velocities. I KNOW that I can't. With my hunting weight bows my 12 shot strings will usually have a spread of 10 to 15 fps, sometimes a bit less than that. Typically one or two will be at the high end (FPS wise)and one or two in the low and the remaining 8 pretty well clustered within 2 or 3 fps in the middle of the string. If I can get 3 or 4 strings with a similar spread I figure the individual shot varitions are evened out and that the average speed for that particular bow/arrow combo is valid.
Another thing I do as a check is to get one of the guys who has decent form and a draw length about the same as mine to shoot it for record as well. usually his string will fit into the same pattern faily well.

[Lane Puckett]

another big variable is how far away from the chrono are you shooting from. I'm told that when doing shotgun pattern testing there is a huge difference in 3 feet vs. 7 feet granted they are shooting at a much faster velocity than bows.

There needs to be some testing done at different distances from the screen.

I think you will find an interesting drop off.

However. I don't have a chrono nor do I have access to one otherwise I'd check for grins.

[DAS]

Part of the reason firearms cannot be tested up close is that the muzzle blast will affect the readings. When I'm working with my rifles I keep the chrono at least 10 feet ahead of the muzzle.

[Desert Archer]

My Oehler chronograph's instructions say to place the first screen 10' from the muzzle (as DAS said). I've done the same thing with my bows (stood back 10') and the results have been believable and repeatable.

Dave

[Heathen]

DA,

The price of one Oehler is worth about 20 Shooting Chronys. NAW... one Oehler is worth more than the Shooting Chrony Co. :)

Jim

[the other DWS]

for firearms I agree that distance is important since shock wave and debris from the muzzle could damage the chrony. However for archery most of the ones I seen or used in shop setups have you place the tip of the fully drawn arrow within a foot or so for the "screen" or the brackets you shoot through. and even then idiots plug the box on occasion.
I have a Chrony Beta---for 2 years and never had it out of the box yet. but I seem to recall from the instuctions that you are supposed to launch arrows from up much closer than for firearms. launching from 1 foot, 3 feet or 10 feet would give quite a variation in FPS I imagine