Understanding Time, Space and Existence

[BLACK WOLF]

Time obviously exists here in the material dimension, but in a dimension where God is omnipresent, does time exist?

If we spend an eternity in heaven with God, does that mean we have always existed in heaven with God since time is said not to exist there?

Jesus has always exsited before time, yet He wasn't born unto this world until 2000 yrs. ago.

Could it be the same or some how simular for us?

Curious if anyone else has contimplated those question and what your thoughts are on it.

Ray

[Esquire]

We are subject to time, as you say, and God is not. As you say, Jesus always existed. There was never a time when he "was not."

For us, however, there was a time when we "were not." God created us from nothingness (ex nihilo). Nothing but God is eternal. He did not fashion us out of some eternal stuff that eternally existed along with him.

Rather, as it says in John 1:3 "3Through him [the Word, or Jesus - God the Son] all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." The word in Greek (here I go again) for "made" is Ginomai - (which means to come into existence, to begin to be, to receive being.). So we do not exist, then God brings us into existence [Ginomai], after which we do exist.

OK - that was orthodoxy, what happens next is my speculation :)

I think that in some sense we will always be subject to time. After all, we will always have had a beginning. And what is time anyway? There are a ton of definitions, if you look it up. Maybe we can say that time is change. At least it is measured by change.

God does not change. But we do. In heaven, unless we are perfect as God is perfect, we will presumably still be subject to some change. For example, I like to think of eternity as my chance to explore a relationship with God, to explore the worlds and universes and perhaps planes of existence that God has created for his and our good pleasure. As we learn and grow, there will be "changes" that will mark our "time" spent in "eternity."

So I guess I am not certain that time will cease to exist. At least for us. What do you think? Are we on the same page as far as defining time??

Mike

[BLACK WOLF]

Mike,

Yes and No ;)

Let me try and also re-word some of those questions.

When was Jesus born of this world or in other words...when did God bring His only begotten Son into exsitence within this world?

About 2000 yrs. ago.

When was I born or allowed to be brought into existence within this world?

About 39 yrs. ago.

Is it possible that we all have exsited in the spirtual plane before we were born into exsitence within this world as Jesus had?

If Jesus has always exsited but did not come into exsitence within this world until 2000 yrs. ago, is it possible that it is the same for us.

God already knows each and every one of us and the choices we have made to believe in Him and has written some of our names within the Book of Life based on those choices. Based on God not being held by time or space, are we somehow already there with Him.

Could there be a clue when Jesus says that God is in Him and He is in God?

Is there any exsitence of time within the spiritual plane?

If so, how does time exsit in a place that is eternal?

I really don't know, but those will be some of the many questions I will have when I get to heaven ;)

Ray

[larry]

time is part of God's creation. see the beginning of Gen.

larry

[BLACK WOLF]

larry,

Yes, God created time here in the material plane, but does time exist in the spiritual plane if it is eternal?

Sorry, I didn't make that clear.

Ray

[WildmanSC]

Black Wolf,

The difference between Christ's eternal existence, as the Son of God, is different than our existance as man. God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirt, had knowledge before the heavens and earth and the first man were created that I would be born on January 6, 1947. They knew too that I would be born again, my spirit birth, in January 1975. And finally, they also know when my existence here on earth will end, either by my death, or by Christ returning to Rapture His bride, the Church, if He does so before I die the physical death.

Now here is where it gets kind of deep in Biblical truth. In the body, I'm time constrained to this earthly time or existence. But in the spirit, we who are born again already exist with God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in the heavenlies. And that eternal existence started when we were born again! Hallaleuah, what a promise, what a wonderful knowledge is available to us in Him.

Bill

[BLACK WOLF]

Bill,

You said - "But in the spirit, we who are born again already exist with God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in the heavenlies."

That's one of the points I was expressing ;)

Ray

[Bill McNeal]

Scripture is literally saturated with Gods Spiritual time references. The problem is, is that men try to ponder upon such things in their human minds, when Scripture tells the saints that their election automatically results in knowledge. However, said knowledge is ONLY based upon His Will, and Good Pleasure, and such knowledge is the knowledge that we must use to unlock the mystery of His Will.........

"""And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment–to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ."""

Here we see God Clearly telling His Bride that there is a time based plan, yet in other Scripture we are told not to concern ourselves with questioning Gods time, timing, or use of it. The elect are simply to administer the word, and be waiting for Jesus.

Larry, your Genesis Scripture is perhaps the most obvious Biblical evidence of Gods Spiritual time use, for it is God who created time.

Shalom!

[greenghost]

Black Wolf, I don't have time at the moment to comment directly, but here are some links to entries in the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. The first is to the temporal parts entry and the second to the entry on time generally.

Temporal Parts (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/temporal-parts/)

Time (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/time/)

[Esquire]

Good to see you here GG. It's been awhile. :)

[BLACK WOLF]

GG,

Thanks for the links. I'll study them when I have a little more time.

Based on your research and belief, please share with us what's in your heart concerning these topics.

Ray