07/20/05 verse

[DaveHawk]

For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has distroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with it commandents and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. Ephesians 2:14-17

Being one in Christ, their is no stronger bone made between man.

[Garry]

Hi Dave,

We had some discussion lately on what are God's laws and which ones still apply to the Gentiles today.

What's your understanding of this part of the scripture you quoted?

by abolishing in his flesh the law with it commandents and regulations

Thanks,
Garry

[BLACK WOLF]

Hi Garry,

Until Dave responds, I'll share a few thoughts concerning your question.

By abolishing in his flesh the law with it commandents and regulations...is basically saying to me...that before Jesus came, the only way to heaven was by always keeping the law, which no man was able to because of their sinful nature. Jesus was the only person, who was able to obey and follow the law. It wasn't until Jesus died on the cross and rose again, that we are now able to be forgiven. I still believe that Jesus wants us to try and obey the laws even though He has abolished them in His flesh.

How do you see it?

Ray ;)

[DaveHawk]

Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law but to full fill it. He thus became the law through the sheading of His blood.

By abolishing in his flesh the law with it commandents and regulations;

I beleive he has given us the ability to hold fast to the law though keeping the faith and putting all our trust in Him. In doing so we keep the 2 commandment Christ gave us. To love our neighbor as ourselfs and take care of the widows. If we do these 2 things we are able to keep the whole law. For with out knowing Christ it is imposable to keep ever the simplest of the laws. We are not bound then by the law. But as Paul states we have made the law subject to our faith. Christ being the head of all things even the law.

[Cato]

The only way to have eternal life, and fellowship with the Father, is to be sinless. This is of course not possible for us, having inherited the sin nature of Adam. Something had to be done about our sin, as it is a barrier between us and God.

The law is the perfect will of God, and shows what we would have to do to be justified by our own efforts, which is impossible, and therefore like a curse to us. Christ removed the law as a burden upon our backs, in that He chose to become our substitutionary satisfaction for our sin debt and God's demand for justice. God looked at the perfect life of Christ, and the voluntary sacrifice He made for me, and said, My demand for justice has been satisfied. Now, rather than compare my performance against the perfect law and see my gross failure, God looks at the fact that Jesus gave Himself as the perfect and ultimate satisfaction for my sin debt. In that way he removed the curse of the law, for it is no longer a curse to us. Althought I cannot keep it, Jesus, who did and can, did it for me.

Great verse. And I am still pondering on it.

Cato

[DaveHawk]

This morning in my devotions I saw this in a way I never have. This is the meat of the Word, although I love yearling tenderloins the best nothing beat a good stew. LOL. Great post !

[Dark Knight]

"Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law but to full fill it. He thus became the law through the sheading of His blood."

Let me expound a tad on this statement.

Under Levitical code, a blood sacrifice was required for atonement of sin. The burnt offering must be a male without defect. This was the only acceptable offering. When Christ stated that He did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it, He literally was saying that HE was the only sacrifice that was acceptable in God's eyes as an atonement. Christ did not abolish the law. Had He done that, there would not be a need for his crucifixion. Christ DID fulfill the law when He was crucified. A male, without defect, that was accepted for the full atonement of all sin. A wonderful online resource available to anyone who desires is www.biblegateway.com.

Any version of the Bible that you desire can be found through the above site online, as well as study guides and search engines.

Read Leviticus starting in chapter one, and you will see why Christ made the statement, and how He fullfilled the law.

:goodvevil

[BLACK WOLF]

abolish - to end an activity or custom officially:

Abolish doesn't mean the same thing as what the word Destroy does.

The activity or custom before the days of Jesus was to try and follow the Laws given to man by God, so we could enter into heaven.

Jesus came to show us that He is the only way available, so in essence Jesus did put and end to a custom. Eternal life isn't based on if we follow the Laws, it's based on if you believe in all of you heart that Jesus is your Lord and Savior.

At least that is how I perceive it ;)

Ray ;)

[DaveHawk]

Sorry guys I made a mistake earler, "To love our neighbor" love your God with all your heart, Must be the heat here is cooking my brain.

Good post DK and BW

[Camp Cook]

Dave:

You corrected youself before I had a chance :)

Sorry, just the mom in me :)

[Swanny]

"By abolishing in his flesh the law with it commandents and regulations...is basically saying to me...that before Jesus came, the only way to heaven was by always keeping the law, which no man was able to because of their sinful nature"

Hi, Ray! Hope everything is well with you.

Just a couple thoughts for your contemplation: In light of Paul's thoughts in Roms. 3:19,20

19Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

it would seem clear that the purpose of the Law given to the Jews was not salvific in the sense that righteousness would or could be earned, i.e. by works or effort, but rather the real purpose behind it was so that sin would become exceedingly sinful...so that the Jew would lose all hope in his basic confidence in himself to earn God's favor when he saw it was impossible to keep it. The Law actually incited sin...just like a sign that says "keep off grass" incites people to walk on it.

Paul goes on to use the example of Abraham in chptr 4 of Romans to prove that he was justified apart from works...before God told him to be circumcised. Abraham believed God and righteouness was imputed to his account. So the Law had a double-edged purpose for the Jews....to bring about a sense of hopelessness in the unbeliever (which the majority of them were), but to the few who believed it was their guide on how to be pleasing to God. David often said in the Psalms that he delighted in the Law of the Lord....only because he was a real God-lover, a man after God's own heart.

Gal. 3 is the correlary passage to Rom. 3/4 where Paul proves the same point because some were placing themselves back under the Mosaic code in attempts to gain righteousness. Paul basically said 'Don't do it, you fools... You misunderstood the purpose of the Law'.

11Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith."[d] 12The law is not based on faith....

"The power of sin is the law...." I Cor. 15:56

Salvation has always been by faith in the Gospel in every era. For me, the interesting thing has been to see how the Gospel message was so crypted in the Old Testament. Gal.3:8 says the Gospel was preached to Abraham, he believed and he was justified (Rom.4). But an actual accounting of Genesis 12-15 is very revealing for he wasn't clearly justified until chp 15:6. The content of the message he heard was that God was going to make from him a great nation, give his offspring a land, make his offspring to be as many as the stars in the sky, and bring forth a son from his loins....THEN HE BELIEVED this message was true God had spoken and was accounted as righteous!

So I guess my point is this....We know what the Gospel message is today being post-Calvary...it's clearly about Christ and his death/burial/ressurection, but the content of the Gospel message Abraham believed was in shadowy form...Paul argues in Gal.3 about what 'seed' actually meant....Christ...but hindsight is always 20/20.

Shoot, never can keep a response nice and short. Sorry! :)

[BLACK WOLF]

Hi Swanny,

Things have been great...busy with just enough time to play here and there. I've been doing alot of fishing ;)

How's things with you?

Great post by the way. Your posts are never to long...there just right ;)

Ray ;)

[DaveHawk]

Camp, I had help. Thanks Camp.

[Garry]

Great comments by everyone.

Ray, you asked me how I understand this verse. My understanding is the same as Black Knight's in his 3:59pm post yesterday July 20.

[Swanny]

Mornin, Ray. Bowfishing, are ya?

We're currently in Gilbert, AZ till 8/11 - been house sitting for a Christian couple who had to travel to Europe for 5 weeks. Don't think we're going to put our feet down and reside here though (various reasons). The mid-day heat keeps one inside...got alot of reading accomplished. Since we're pretty much mobile with everything we own in my tool trailer and my Ford truck we're thinking about checking out the area near Bailey, CO...have some contacts there and some friends. Don't know how my health will do with the elevation though...got to try it and see.

Looks like you are in Western, CO...we're planning on hitting Rt. 70 on the west side to get there. Probably won't be too far away from you at some point? Would be awesome to shoot an arrow or two with you, but I shipped my bows to a friend in Nebraska until we get settled.