Too "techy"

[swampy]

Just wondering ....Have we (tradtalk) become too techy ??

Yea I know there are those of us that wanna know detailed things about this or that and most that visit here do so because of a desire to gain more accuracy than we currently have.

I realize this site came about as a way to show other avenue,s availably in this world we call archery as well but .......are we looseing some interest from folks because it,s more high end talk??

I know a couple guys don,t visit as much because of it and was just wonderin what thoughts anybody else has on it.

Myself I,m a hunter first than a target archer.I tend to stick with simpler set up,s (longbow off the shelf) and don,t get caught up in the "tradborg" not that thats a bad thing at all.

Didn,t many of us come to "traditional archery" for a simpler way of doing things as apposed to adjust this and that till ya get this....... :sbrug:

Just some food for thought thats all.I,m for ALL types of archery hopefully we,ll get some more of a mix happening

[tuffshot]

For the most part the techy views dicussed here are nothing new but just old ways that have been forgotten or by the some have been thought as not being trad so they are not disscussed. For the most part the "Trads" have only picked a certian part of archery to worship and all others are blasfamy :)

It seems like a generation got left out and some of the old ways have been forgotten. Alot of knowledge abounds here and if some would take the time to do a little research they would find "techy" is not new it is just new to them. :sbrug:

[Holmes]

As a new archer, and a non-comformist who refuses all logical categorisation, I find the topics here most interesting and educational.

I like classical bows, e.g., those with wheels. Compounds just don't grab my interest. I do not, however, find anything offensive with regard to gadgets on stickbows, high tech arrows, or any particular aiming technique. Metal risers and limbs are just dandy if one desires.

I am a hunter but I'll still be leaning on my firearms. I enjoy handgun hunting, and riflery with the old nitroexpress cartridges as well as long range hunting with specially prepared arms and ammo.

I hope to attain enough skill to hunt with a barebow but I am also interested in field style archery with long recurves, elevated rests, and draw checks.

While 3D shoots intrigue me and I recognise their value in preparing and maintaining skills for the archery hunter, I find them a bit boring in excecution, especially when mixed with all the wheelie bow archers.

I'm hoping to study the mechanics of a field archery shoot here in central Wyoming and get one up and going by next spring.

Now that you've heard the confessions of a newbie techie-traditionalist, I suppose my succinct answer to your query would be... No :cheers:

Best regards,

-Holmes

[Viper]

swampy -

Ya know, the more you know the better off you are --- maybe. No one here thinks about the mechanism of trauma a broadhead slicing through a deer does, but the guy who designed that bh did, or at least should have. We don't really worry about that limb taper ratio in a recurve's or R/D longbows limbs, but the guy who designed it did. We as a species are, or at least used to be, curious about things. That's why we gotten where we are, in most fileds. Looks like today a lot of people want it so simple that we want to do stuff without having to think about it. Guess I'm too much of an old timer, I want to know how and if possible why things work, I may not understand all off it, but I'm damn curious about it.

Will of of this knowledge make me a better shooter, don't know, we still rely on feel when we make a shot, but I still want to know, somewhere in the back of my mind what's really happening, the nuts and bolts. That's just my nature.

BTW - Myself I,m a hunter first than a target archer.I tend to stick with simpler set up,s (longbow off the shelf) and don,t get caught up in the "tradborg" not that thats a bad thing at all.

That kinda bothers me. A shot at a living animal, IMHO, is a lot more critical that a shot at a piece of paper, not only are we trying to cleanly take a life, and recovery the animal for dinner, but in all but the very highest target classes, a miss on paper, can usually be over looked, as there's are plenty more shot that have to be made. So saying "I'm a hunter first..." mean you better know exactly what you're doing.

Last point about the "trad" stuff (did I mention, on this forum, that I hate that word?), there are a lot of trad guys, who use it, consciously or subconsciously to accept a lesser degree of proficiency, ie it's OK to be a poor shot. Not saying you think that wat, but you'll find a lot who do.

:2cents:

Viper out.

[Floxter]

I consider myself an archer first and a bowhunter second. I'm not interested in wearing borsolino hats or plaid shirts, and I don't subscribe to the Fred Asbell school of squat and crouch shooting. My interests are equally divided between full blown FITA rigs with skinny carbons and longbows with woodies. I come to this forum because it contains a lot of kindred spirits who are interested in squeezing the greatest accuracy out of their rig and find it challenging to shoot beyond their normal hunting range. FITA, Field&Hunter, Spots, and 3D; they're all my games. And this board provides lots of practical how-to to accomplish them.

[swampy]

Perhaps I should qualify my "hunter first" remark. If I had to chose between shooting spots full time or hunting full time the later would get the nod.

As a hunter it is MY responcibilty to make sure that I CAN hit the spot on paper BEFORE going afield.

I don,t care for paper plate accuracy and never have even with a land canon.

I guess I,m hopeing that while we get guys like Holmes that we don,t at the same time loose others like say TJ.

I,ve met and hunted with a bunch of guys that aren,t into this side of it and thats great for them.They are very serious and shoot every bit as well as I do yet don,t compete or get into any of the high tech end of it.

I like to know how things work probably more than the next guy but in general the guys that look for the tech side have gone to the compound. I still like to see the stuff about "warf bows" fita gear ect....but at the same time there,s a bunch of folks that like simple archery (is that better than trad LOL) and are actually very good at it. I just didn,t want to see them get spooked off by an over abundance of one side of archery.

Viper, you,ve been a VERY big help to me personally by the way you explain stuff not just to me but others as well.It,s easy to understand what your sayin KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK !!

:cheers: to ALL of archery from the high end fita rigs to the wittled out selfbows.

[Bill Tait]

It would be nice to bring back the Bowhunting forum...???

I, like some of the other members here on Tradtalk, lean to the Bowhunting side of archery, more than the Target side of archery.

T.J. Can I get a :amen:

[Papabull]

Just like some people don't want to talk about whether two blade or 4 blade broadheads are better ad nauseum, or what the definitioin of "trad" is, it's also a sure thing that some aren't interested in talk about "shooting groups" or barshaft tuning or "how to minimize hand torque". Most of the archers here enjoy talking about shooting and talking about how to improve their shooting. Sure, that's a turn off for some people, but this is an open forum and members are going to talk about what they want to talk about - and unless it gets nuts, no one's going to fuss with them for doing that here.

If members want to talk about preparing rivercane shafting, that's fine. If they want to talk about the simple pleasures of stumpshooting, that's cool. Bowfishing... thumbs up! If they want to talk about feeling patronized when trad shooters are asked to shoot from the kiddy stakes, that's OK, too.

[Viper]

swampy -

Thank you for the kind words, and I know you know what you're doing, maybe I'm getitng a little LW-itis setting it. Maybe it's just me, but I do tend to gravitate toward the hows and whys. When teaching stuff, I know that the ppl I work with will be talking to other folks, and getting different opinions. That's a good thing, but the advice I always give them when listening to folks is, if they tell you to do something, ask them "why?" If they can't answer that, or give an answer that doesn't sit quite right, maybe the advise isn't that solid. Because I read it in a book :help: , isn't an answer.

Funny I really don't think of this stuff as high tech, it's just what it is :sbrug:

:cheers:

Viper out.

[Papabull]

Bill, you asked for it, you've got it. There's certainly a place in this forum for pure bowhunting talk. Ultimately, that's what it's all about for many of us, anyway. So, I'm re-introducing Spike Camp immediately.

[swampy]

"If they want to talk about feeling patronized when trad shooters are asked to shoot from the kiddy stakes, that's OK, too"

Some of those guys are extremly accurate at 17.3 yrds and happy with themselves and their limitations why belittle them at all ??

I met a guy for the first time at our club trophy shoot.He asked how a 160 or somethin like that was.Not knowing the guy at all I told him it was ok and what I normally shoot.It turned out he was scoreing wrong 5 for a kill 8 for the 10 spot and 10 for X,s any other hit was 0........he took home the trophy and we,ve become friends how well do ya think that friendship woulda been if I patronized his "low score"

Gotta have an open mind weather it,s about tack driving accuracy beyond 17.3 yrds or nailin a whitetail in the vitals from 5 yrds.

I guess I just wanna see this site thrive it has helped me out alot and can help others as well provideing we don,t drive them away

[swampy]

PB,check out my tab ?? perhaps you can answer that for me Thanks

[Papabull]

Swampy, you can be guilty of jumping to conclusions, too. I was referencing DA's post about the indoor shoot suddenly having a new distance for the trads when 20 yards has been the traditional distance for such a shoot for about a 100 years, now. I agree with DA that that's patronizing, but I digress..... my point was that people talk about many different things and if they want to talk about something else, they need only do it.

I don't understand your question about the tab?????

[RayJ]

This site is a little different than the others.I think there tends to be a little arrogance in some of the posts but I visit anyway because I think that there is alot to be learned here.I'm a hunter and that is what I practice for.I don't post much but I'll check this site out almost daily.There is alot to be learned from target archers.I think that some of the posts could tend to turn novice or average archers away.There seems to be an attitude that someone who isn't a great shot just doesnt care about getting any better or never practices except right before hunting season.That may be true in some cases but I'm not sure that it is the majority.I firmly believe that accuracy is very important in hunting but the accuracy that alot of you guys talk about seems almost unattainable for the average guy.
I think that people gravitate to people they have more in common with.The people who like shooting Warf bows etc...will have more in common with those of like mind and will want to spend their time with those of like minds.That's ok.That is how the world is.I don't feel that I am on the same level as alot of shooters on this forum and that's probably why I don't post much but I visit to learn and most of the posts are interesting even if there is a hint if arrogance there.
RayJ

[DAS]

I can't remember ever being hampered by knowing too much about something, but the opposite is certainly true. My focus has always been hunting. I haven't shot a single competitive event since the seventies, but I'm still very interested in studying and improving every aspect of my shooting and this site is the place to do that. I think a lot of people are here exactly for that reason. It's too bad TJ left because it seemed to me like he was very well liked. He did get kidded a lot but he did everything he could to make himself a target too, so I'm puzzled if he got offended.
As for the comments about yardages, I think anyone who admits personal limitations and lives within them is to be commended. It bothers me though when I hear about organized shoots with ranges limited to 15 yards. When I belonged to a club way back when, we had a walking course much like a 3D course except there were no 3D's. We just had bales with paper animal targets on them. The ranges on the course were from 15 to 50 yards, and that was before compounds! Everyone shot recurves and a few had longbows. Pushing your limits on the course makes you a better hunter. Limiting yourself to 15 yards, to me, seems ridiculous and self defeating.
When I first started out, my mentors refused to take me along on their hunts unless I was proficient out to 30 yards. I spent a solid year working my butt off to make that grade. Pushing my limits made me a better hunter.
I don't think there is anything wrong with accepting a 15 yard limitation if that's what you want, but I enjoy the fact that people here are pushing the frontier a little.

[bowshooter74]

good replys guys, I dont consider my set up to techy, stabilizer wristsling and sight might sound to techy to some. What good does it do me to just shoot off the shelf while hunting when im nopt always 100% confident i can hit the animal? I know it can happen now even with gadgets but my shooting has gotten better, so has my form, so has my confidence. I will shoot simple and techy and enjoy both.

[1bjd]

What I like about this site and what others like is why this site is here. Archery plain and simple is fun. Hunting is also fun but more important it is deadly serious. The taking of a life is something I do not take lightly. Learning about my equipment and making it as deadly as possible is my goal here. Learning about the game I hunt is also important and if I can also do that here than I am all for that also. Just happy that we have this forum to express and learn :2cents: John

[Heathen]

Swampy,

I know how some feel coming here. I wonder sometimes why I visit here??? :help: Since I'm fairly new to archery, I figure I might learn something. Plus it's a change from what you get off the other trad sites. The most I ever got off some other sites is what's the hottest custom made bow of the month was...!!! :sbrug:Those trad purist are just too darned trendy for my poor taste. I know now why the trad world is full of BOHO's. :) Six months ago I would have never dreamed I would have a metal risered bow and three sets of ILF limbs.

Jim

[Desert Archer]

I'm curious exactly what about this board is too "techy". There are at least two other boards I know of that are definitely not "techy". Should this site follow their lead and only talke about "real" traditional archery (what ever the heck that is)?

The picture behind the mast head shows five guys who won some 3D shoot (sorry, just don't remember the event). Four of the five have metal riser recurves, with elevated rests, plungers and (brace yourself) stabilizers. Should Robert and Lewis take that picture down before someone is offended?

Being proud of your increased ability or an accomplishment, then sharing that experience and more importantly the knowledge gained that led to that success, isn't arrogance to me. Should we deleat any reference to improving your accuracy, particularly if it enabled someone to shoot well in competition?

I was going to rant on, making sever other points, but maybe I better quit. The idea that this board, the best and most informative ARCHERY board I've seen on the internet, should quit being so "techy" so somebody isn't scared away frankly (explative deleated) me off. Guess I better shut up for now...

Dave

[O'B]

Here's :2cents: about this forum.
It is exactly anything you want it to be. Any questions/topics brought up there seems to be alot of opinion/experience brought up without it being personal. I enjoy it. I've been shooting just over a year and I'm pretty intimidated, but it's helped speed my learning curve. where I shoot I find the wheelie guys to be a much greater help then the trad guys. That's why I like this forum. I haven't been made to feel like an idiot asking what might be a dumb question, but if I don't ask, I"ll never have a starting point. One last point, I feel I'm talking to adults on this site even when my inner child is dying to get out. I'm more interested in hunting, but improving the mechanics of shooting will only enhance my hunting opportunities.
Thanks guys.

[Bill Tait]

PapaBull :thankyou: :youdaman:

[swampy]

I,m glad to see we have some new guys here that are getting alot out uf he site.I believe that was it,s intended purpose.

Thanks PB for bringing back the spike camp forum that should open up another avenue.

YES I also sometimes jump to conclusions same as anybody else I also sometimes get "techy" did ya notice my back tension thread talkin about how early in the draw cycle you get your back into it ??

Another plus about this site is ya get to speak your mind as long as it,s done in an adult like manner and it doesn,t get yanked because it doesn,t fit some prediscribe idea of how "it should be".

There absolutely nothing wrong with the tech side of things.I want to know what it is that makes a shot work like I said earlier probably more than many.

What is the proper skelatal alighnment for the best possible accuracy??Viper did a good job explaining it to me but there are a good number of folks that don,t careabout early engagement of the back muscles or getting there skeleton lined up for bone to bone contact resulting in a solid foundation and an accurate shot.Granted it would be a good idea for many and this is the best place to find it but....well I guess I,m kinda at a lose for an explanation of my perseption but then again I was that way on another site when I said it seemed clicky.

At least here it,s not clicky,you can speak your mind,and ya can take all the info offered and become an above average shot as a result of it.

No I don,t think the pic should be removed it certainly didn,t offend anybody that I know about and NO tech subjects should not be avoided thats a main part of this site.I guess I,m hopeing for something for EVERYBODY and perhaps thats not gonna happen anywhere.

It,s still a great site that new folks and ones that have been around for awhile can learn a great deal from.I just brought up an observation that has been called to my attention by more than person and I,d like to see this site prosper not fade away thats all.


Take care :cheers:

[Stick'em]

Humm....interesting post. You know I came from a very high-tech wheelie bow world and threw it all away for a stick bow with wooden arrows. That was not my thing either beautiful as it is. I landed happily on the planet of stickbow meets wheelie (i.e. The Hoyt Gamemaster). It was the perfect compromise for me and I have been happy ever since.....until the next bow comes out that is. :highfive:

To each his own I say. Shoot what makes you happy and don't limit yourself to a category. The happiest people I know are openminded and secure in what they enjoy....life is too short. Shoot and have fun! :2cents:

[BLACK WOLF]

It drives me nuts when I hear people complain about someone getting technical or trying to learn more about the mechanics and physics of archery. That's why I love this website. The participants here are focused on learning and sharing as much information as they can to become better archers.

If they want to keep it simple...fine, and if some wants to learn more...let 'em and teach 'em.

Why in the world would anyone want to keep someone from learning more about archery or put them down if that is what they are wanting to pursue?

Ray

[Glynn Sluder]

I really love this site, I have backed off from posting just to get a topic started and just try to absorb a little more each day. Also doing more shooting since the weather has allowed it.

You probably wouldn't go to a Jack O'conner site if you were an Elmer Keith fan except to see how the other side thinks.

This place gives me something the others don't, but guess what, there's a link to them right off this board. Don't even have to go search my favorites to shoot over and see their newest threads.

Bottom line, can't make everyone happy. I spend more time here than both others combinded, the thinking here just jives with mine, more often than not.

Of course, this is where I got warfed! and that is still doing a number on me. I am a political conservative, but have become a real progressive liberal archer this year. You guys have opened my mind about alot of new stuff. THANKS!
Glynn

[3dchamp]

tecky huh !!
I ve been called alot of things but this is a new one , I also am a archer first ,target archer second and bowhunter third . I dont think we get to tecky here ,the stuff we talk of is nothing new ,it just has been forgoten with the new holyer than thou new trad guy . If you talk to warf ,jack and others who have shot for many many years will tell you this is pretty old fashion stuff ,that just has been put a side . I am glad that this site was formed ,or I may have went through my hole archery life not knowing all these secrets ,that would have just been lost with the real great archers ,so tell your friends not to be so narrow minded and join in , weather hunter or shooter ,your will learn alot here ,that can make for a better hunt or shoot.
Bill :shooting:
If it ant got that clank ,it ant trad HA HA !!!!!

[Pinelander]

Swampy, let me start off by saying that I think it's great that you speak your mind openly. It's a good sign that a community site is in good health when it's members can speak openly and honestly without fear of rebuke or censorship.

3dchamp... is your side note regarding "holyer than thou new trad guy" referring to those that prefer to keep things simple? Just as the term "17.3 yds" is when referring to those that kill animals at that distance or thereabouts for reasons they choose? I think it's OK if they believe their trad style is "holier than mine"... as long as they don't squat in my sandbox. LOL

Sorry for the long post... but this is a subject that I have thought about many times in the past, mainly because I come from a strong trad hunting background. I was, and more than likely still am viewed as one of those "dumbed-down" trad guys. But that's OK... in the last 15 months, I've learned many things I would not have known if I had not become "archery stir crazy". I chose to come here and participate mainly because most of the other sites were nothing more than what I had been doing for the last 20 years.

I'm sure thare are many that don't visit this site because they view it as too "techy" for their archery interests. No big surprise really, as the majority of barebow archers today are in it for the hunting only with no target shooting. Most new trad hunters have been taught, read, and watched how IT is supposed to be done (IT meaning trad instinctive hunting). They find out quickly that this method has it's limitations, but at the same time has it's advantages too. Doesn't really matter... most kills are 20 yds. or thereabouts anyways, regardless of archery equipment used.

Through many years of bowhunting with a recurve, I've heard this over and over... "he's an instictive hunter", some with admiration... some with disdain. Not that I care, but they are stereotyping me nonetheless. The reason I say this is because it somewhat parallels what happens here and on other archery/hunting sites as well. People have their own interests and own ideas, they join in where their interests fit the best. The place they like to call "home" is comfortable to them... the place they choose not to hang out is stereotyped as the "other" way.

Each place has it's own flavor... there's the Trad Hunting one, the Trad Crusty one, the Trad Welcome Newbies one, the Trad Stick Shooters one, the Trad Excellence one...etc, etc, etc... It is difficult, if not dang near impossible to have a community that is everything to everybody, but I think TradTalk is one that's as close as you can get to that pipedream.

Whether we like it or not, the term "trad" in archery today is here to stay. I have no problem speaking of it openly as it relates to the stereotype of today's barebow hunter... no differently than I do of speaking of "techy" things as it relates to the stereotype of a target shooter. Main thing is... everyone is welcome here... but ya can't lead a horse to a new pasture if he doesn't want to eat.

[Cato]

I appreciate the honesty of RayJ, and hope he and others of his mindset always feel welcome and at home here.

I can appreicate the question. I'm not sure why, but much of the conversation out here seems to gravitate to the ins and outs of shooting as well as possible. All topics seem welcome, but most of us out here seem to have a particular interest in shooting better, for what ever reason.

I'm one of those hunters, that wants to be effective with my bow. I've done well taking game the way we hunt down here in the redneck part of the Country, but before coming to this site, I was never able to shoot up to the level I desired. Hanging around here for a year has helped me imensely. I have gotten more practical help here than all the books and tapes.

Now my shooting is acutally better than what my goals used to be. The problem is, that hanging around you guys has casued me to raise my goals for my desired level of shooting. So I'm still not where I want to be. But I am continuing to make progress.

Maybe it is a little techy, but I like it. I also suspect that some of the new features of the site may expand its appeal.

[Kevin]

Speaking for myself sometimes I try and over complicate a simple thing. Traditional archery is simple right? So why pay so much attention to the details? Well, at his past weekends shoot I had several archers complement me on my arrows beautiful flight where the winds were high with gusts. I also happened to have a very nice round as well so maybe a lot of eyes were on me. Im still shooting a wooden risered recurve as were all the competitors, but I was the lone easton axis shooter. I spent a little time tuning them, and took great care assembling them, I think it paid off. I dont think a fita style bow would have made much difference, maybe, probably not. The guy who actually won the tourny ( he had a terrific round on saturday where as I was topgun on sunday) used a black widow pulling 72#. I couldnt make up the point spread but I ended up 2nd. So much for a target wt bow dominating at this shoot.

[Papabull]

Piney, the 17.3 yard thing referred to those who insisted they had the orgiinal stone tablets with the engraved commandment "anyone who takes a shot over XX yards is an unethical slob" with XX usually representing something between 15 to 18 yards, depending on the owner of the stone tablets. I don't remember anyone EVER being derisive to someone who said they just don't shoot well enough to take longer shots than they were comfortable with. That's just plain good judgement. What gets some heated discussion going is how often that 17.3 yard (18 yard or whatever it is) ior less is always OK no matter how badly one shoots and more than 17.3 yards (18 or whatever) is outrageous and totally unaccceptable no matter how well one shoots or how experienced the hunter may be.

Just a clarification in case you really thought the "17.3" yards was any derisive reference at all to those who shot within their range - it's really a reference to hypocritical small minds.who feel like they're sole proprietor and ultimate authority on all things ethical, particularly maximum ethical shot distance.

[swampy]

"It is difficult, if not dang near impossible to have a community that is everything to everybody, but I think TradTalk is one that's as close as you can get to that pipedream."

Well piney I think ya nailed it! I think I was having a pipedream when I started this thread.I was just kinda hoping to get more folks in here both techys and primatives searching for a higher degree of accuracy.

I only brougt it up because I,ve asked a few guys and that was the responce I got.It wasn,t just one guy.

My hats off to PB for allowing this type of open communication it should only help things get better.

It,ll probably cost me double now if I ever decided to get "warfed" LOL or being a toolmaker perhaps thats more my alley than wittleing a selfbow would be.

When Hoyt first cam out with FF string and cables on their pro vantage series I just had to have one and when Burley Hall was winning all those 3D,s with a high country and there was one hangin next to the hatfield I went to get I ended up bring home 2 new bows(wives don,t care for those type of surprizes by the way)...point is I,m some what of a techy myself I was only looking for diversity thats all.

Keep ALL the techy stuff AND lets get some other stuff going to

Shoot straight and have FUN!!

[Spike]

I thought 17.3 yds was the perfect sight pin setting for a trad bow? :) Giving depth of kill between 15 to 20 yds. Now I'm all confused :sbrug:

[thisbucks4u]

I think that this site was very one sided for a while with all the "trad borg" and warf this and warf that stuff. But luckily we are getting away from that.
(No offense to Bob at all, great guy)

There are lots of great reasons to visist this site, and with that there come great reasons not to visit this site. The core beliefs of the members here shows in each of your posts and it doesnt take a person long to realize if this is their cup of tea or not, and as someone eluded to earlier in this thread- we have links to the other places if it isnt.

[3dchamp]

No I am not be littling the new holy trad guy , I have done all the self bow building ,I have shot longbws for years ,but I also dont be little the guy who wants to take archery to the next leval and I get alot of the crap from my old buck skinner friends and fedora wearing buds ,that I have turned against them ,witch is not the case at all . Iam the guy who showes up at the trad shoot and gets all the crap about my hoyt or warf ,if I have to tip toe around them and the 17.3 thing ,then why should they not be more understanting of my way and if you got to know me more ,then you could see I am not has tecky has It may look, I think archery is archery no matter what, you get what you put into it . I still hunt ,you can only talk about so many ways to kill a anaimal ,then it gets old ,then what do you do the next 345 days of the year . Kept your broadheads sharp and be in the right place or have lots of money and your a big hunter ,so I belive the 3d corse or taget range is the place to test ones skill . I also do not mean to belittle the hunter ,its ruff driveing in a brand new truck to the guided hunt in some remote farm and stay he a nice lodge and be taken by quad to your stand . But I still beleave that standing with 200 archers on a line trying to put all arrows in a one inch group ,like Jim just did in kentucky is the ture test of skill. :shooting:

[Pinelander]

Thanks PB, a very good history lessen of sorts for those that may not be aware of why this term is used. ;)

For a very long time I was confused and thought it was a derisive remark about one's shooting abilities or self-imposed limits, rather than a supposed ethical law that was crammed down everyone's throat by those "holier than thou" folks.

No offense intended towards you, 3dchamp, for mentioning these things. I just thought it was a good example of how some people might take it the wrong way. They might be like I was... a trad hunter that lived in a closet for so long that they really have no idea the root meaning of these catch phrases.

Spike, I think I found that particular setting on my Check-It sight, but it only works good if your arrow is under 800 grains or thereabouts. :p

... there I go again, talking about "techy" things. Dang thing has so many adjustment knobs... but I think it might assist me in knocking a turkey's head off at 20 yards. Gee, I guess all the 300 round shooting I've been doing lately might have some use in the field after all. I ain't too proud to use a sight if it gives me a better chance of filling my turkey tag. But of course, if they're stupid enough to walk within 10 yards of me, I'd be more than happy to do it "instinctively" as well.

[swampy]

"a supposed ethical law that was crammed down everyone's throat by those "holier than thou" folks."

Isn,t it funny that I mostly here that from guys that are more than capable of much longer range than the average person.

"it's really a reference to hypocritical small minds.who feel like they're sole proprietor and ultimate authority on all things ethical, particularly maximum ethical shot distance."

simpltons with "small minds" would probably just walk away from a comment like that.Not that their really narrow minded at all perhaps they too are looking to get better just don,t wish to hafta listen to coments like that in order to achieve their goals.For some 17.3 yrds might be their goal is it wrong for them??

That would be like saying it,s wrong for so and so to shoot 40+ yrds at game just because they can do so accuately.

The coin has 2 sides ya know to bad most folks only see whatever side is faceing up :sbrug:

[Papabull]

I played for fun. I played in leagues. I played in tournaments. I played for money. There were places that were hangouts for high level players and there were places equally popular or even more so that were popular among other groups of pool players of varying skill and experience.

Not everyone that liked hanging out in the "shark tanks" were high level players. Many of them, however, became high level players. They wanted to be good, enjoyed the challenge and kept at it until they were excellent. For them, that would have never happened being exposed only to casual players.

Others wouldn't go near the place. Maybe they were the best in their neighborhood bar and wanted to leave it at that. Maybe they considered shooting pool more of a social activity than anything they really cared to invest the time and thought required to improve. Maybe they considered the semi-pros to be too arrogant or maybe that was just a way of rationalizing their distaste for that circle of players.

Most weren't arrogant at all, though they were highly competitive. Most were very happy to share the secrets of the game with anyone who really cared to learn. When they went to other bars, some players at those bars watched with fascination. Some left in disgust. Some acted like they didn't realize they couldn't win and kept racking them up, losing to the guy and then offering to buy him a round of drinks. The last kind of player was always outnumbered by the first two kinds of players. It was almost a sure thing his days of playing that bar would soon be over when he made the "shark tank" his new home. And by then, the guys he used to play with were glad to be rid of him, anyway.

Water seeks it's own level and it's not the experience or skill that really determines most which billiards parlor a player would gravitate towards - it was his goals and aspirations that drew him to those with similar characteristics.

Some play casually and have modest goals. Some want to strive for an ideal of excellence in themselves. Some in between those two ends. The really good players didn't associate much with the casual players. It wasn't because they looked down their nose at them, but because that kind of game couldn't hold their interest and besides, it usually annoyed casual players.

This is how it is with just about every sport, from pool to golf. People enjoy the sport at the level and in the way they want to and will mesh with others who are of the same mindset and on the same track, regardless of where they are on that track.

:2cents:

[swampy]

Very nice analogy there PB :bow2:

Guess I was lookin to make some of the casual players good before the sharks came and spooked them off unintentionally ofcourse.

Any idea how many times I got my a&& kicked at foose ball before getting good enough to beat the guy that would crush me over and over??? hundreds

I,m not the norm in that regard I can take the whoopin and learn from it.I,ve got my own table here at work and nobody to play why because they don,t wanna get hammered over and over till they learn.If I wasn,t so hard on them maybe some of my coworkers may have taken the time to learn the game

We,re ALL equals even if you can kick my butt on the range.

"Play nice" :goodvevil

[swampy]

Perhaps if the sharks didn,t have teeth folks wouldn,t be afraid to swim with them :)

[Papabull]

It's the stringrays and jellyfish that are most likely to ruin a nice day at the beach, but I digress.

Maybe we should have a "back room" where all the illicit and undesirable tech talk takes place, invisible and inacessible to anyone without the password? That might solve the "image problem" and help this forum become a proper clone of the others but with a secret deadbolted room in the back where all the seedy stuff takes place out of sight and under cover.

Everyone knows La Cosa Bowstra exists and there are many whispers about it, but the "family" discusses all their business away from the prying eyes and ears of the public and the Trad Police.........

I'll give it some thought. :rolleyes:

[thisbucks4u]

Rotflmao!!!

[Viper]

Bull -

I thought that what the Moderator's forum was for???

BTW - you had asked about the counterbored plunger recepticle, with the titanium sleeving? I think it'll work, but the graphite lube will need to be ground finer to lessen the wavefront collisions after the cusp of the first part of paradox. I think the .0003 micron stuff should be able to handle it, if you can find out what the compression ratio would be at ambient temp and 1 ATM pressure.

Wadda think?

Oh yeah, and that's La Bowsa Nostra to you. :cheers:

Viper out.

[swampy]

Now thats some funny stuff right there,Viper LOL

It,s time for me to digress as well have a great day EVERYBODY

[O'B]

To finish it off, it must be a smoke filled room.

I'll bring a box of Cubans. (not immigrants!!!)

[Papabull]

You bring the Cubans. I'll bring the MaCallan 16!

[Heathen]

Bull -

I thought that what the Moderator's forum was for???

BTW - you had asked about the counterbored plunger recepticle, with the titanium sleeving? I think it'll work, but the graphite lube will need to be ground finer to lessen the wavefront collisions after the cusp of the first part of paradox. I think the .0003 micron stuff should be able to handle it, if you can find out what the compression ratio would be at ambient temp and 1 ATM pressure.

Wadda think?

Oh yeah, and that's La Bowsa Nostra to you. :cheers:

Viper out.

Viper,
You're talking my game now. I understand microns, atmospheres, amb. temp, and compression ratios.

It's this stick and string stuff I have trouble with. :)

Jim

BTW .0003 of a micron is slightly larger than a gnats butt. :)

[Papabull]

while .0003 of a micron may be slightly larger than the nether region of the fungus gnat (Mycetophilidae), it is actually somewhat smaller than the south end of a northbound fruit gnat (Trypetidae). It would be quite unfortunate if someone were to get confused about the technical details of scale in regard to these small members of the fruit fly family over a simple lack of proper clarification.

I'm sure eveyrone will take something valuable away from this. :D

[Heathen]

PB,

Thanks for the clarification. :)

Jim

[swampy]

since a micron is .000039" I,d hafta say that .0003 of a micron would make your receptical slicker than snot on a kids lip LOL

Ofcourse when your talkin that small of particals you may need to factor in the heat generated by the friction of the arrow as it passes off the rest and the # of shots you,d be able to get before that became an issue

[Holmes]

while .0003 of a micron may be slightly larger than the nether region of the fungus gnat (Mycetophilidae), it is actually somewhat smaller than the south end of a northbound fruit gnat (Trypetidae). It would be quite unfortunate if someone were to get confused about the technical details of scale in regard to these small members of the fruit fly family over a simple lack of proper clarification.

Methinks perhaps we have indeed become a wee bit too techy :help:

-Holmes

[Papabull]

But we hate to disappoint anyone. :D

[van_fl]

Thanks
You guys have just helped me solve something that I have been pondering for some time.

"BTW - you had asked about the counter bored plunger receptacle, with the titanium sleeving? I think it'll work, but the graphite lube will need to be ground finer to lessen the wavefront collisions after the cusp of the first part of paradox."

I made that change to the Warf. But didn't think about the forth and fifth harmonic nodes.
Have determined by repeatable testing It's the mateting beat of the Trypetidae,s wings. It is theorized that the third harmonic on a unmodified plunger has the same affect.

(Insert tongue in check smelly here) cuse I don’t want to be in any more trouble .
:shooting: :)

[Viper]

Van -

Under no circumstances is the third harmonic to be confused with the forth derivative.

Viper out.

[van_fl]

must be getting old :mistake:
:lol:

[pondscum2]

getting slack there, van/fla! ps2