Rating 3-D Course Difficulty

[Str8 Shooter]

I'm curious how most people would rate the difficulty of a 3-D course. Is it the shot distances, obstructed shots, position, etc? What would find more difficult, long open shots or close angled shots?

Lastly, here's some pics of the 3-D range at the shop I work at. Tell me what you guys think of the difficulty level. What do you think a good score would be for barebow shooters?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/str8shooter/100_1246.jpg

Here's the course: 32 targets, 16 shot from the ground, 16 from the upper level. Scored 10-8-5, 320 points possible. The back wall is 40 yds from the shooter. If you look on the right hand side we have blocks at 20, 30, and 40 yds. Closest target is about 12 yds and furthest is about 40 from up top. We've got turkeys, javalina, and wolves out to 30-35, a whitetail at 38 yds from the top (I hate this target BTW), only the big stuff past that. More targets past 20 than under.

How would this course compare to most of the courses you shoot in your neck of the woods?

Chris

[Str8 Shooter]

Here's a couple more pics.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/str8shooter/100_1247.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/str8shooter/EditRange2.jpg

[MDBowhunter]

Its hard to come up with a rating for a course that like because I have never shot a 3d course like that one.

I think that I would rate the difficulty a 6 out of 10. Seems to me that the only thing that has some difficulty to it is that the yardages are further than the 17.3 yard traditional maximum....lol However, even that is not so difficult because it seems that if you have been to that range before you would know that the back wall is 40 yards and therefor make yardages easy to judge. Next, even though you do shot from a second level the it seems to be 16 level shots and 16 second floor shots, not as much variation as a rolling woodlot course. There does not seem to be any thing to obstruct the targets or distract the shooter, which is common on outdoor shoots. No elements to deal with such as hot, cold, wind, clouds, sun, rain, ect...

To be honest, I really don't consider that shooting a 3D course. I see it as shooting 3D targets indoors.

Don't get me wrong, if I had a place like that to shoot at around my house, I am sure that I would log a few rounds a week.

:2cents:

[James Wrenn]

I have to agree with mdbowhunter on this one.To me that is just shooting targets as well.It would be a lot easier to range everything there so you would be able to shoot better than on outdoor courses with up hill and across the bottom shots with limbs hanging everywhere.That one would be easy after you shot it a couple of times.Our 3ds are never set up the same with targets or target locations.All stakes are removed each shoot and put somewhere else the next one.You never have the same shots so that makes it harder than a shoot that has permanate cleared lanes and stakes. jmo

[Heathen]

One thing I notice is if you missed your intended target you're bound to hit another..!!! :)
I've never seen anything like that, I'm sure it would be plenty difficult for me.
I'd have a hard time focusing on my target with the others bunched in so close.

The course I shoot now is mostly steep downhill shots, through brush especially heavy in the summer months. One close shot is through a hollow log. Most of the shot distances are within 25yds. They do change position of the targets and distances between shoots. The highest score I remember from last year was in the 250's out of a possble 300. There could have been a higher score that I missed???
Another course I shoot is easier, but it's a Copperhead and Timber Rattler haven. It's very difficult to concentrate when worrying about getting snake bit. I did purchase a set of snake gaiters hopefully this will relieve the nervous jitters.

Jim

[thisbucks4u]

I think that is an awesome indoor course. It would be more difficult than most guys will admit to because a 40 yard shot is still a forty yard shot. And even though you have the turkeys up front, Its hard to consistently hit 10's on them things. But youve also got the upper level to contend with, and no matter what anyone says anytime you bring trigonometry into the picture it adds to the difficulty.

I would love to shoot that course. Cudos to whoever put it together.

[Floxter]

I agree! That's a great Indoor 3D Course. Something there for both the stickbow shooters and the Bowhunter Compound shooters. The most we can get in our indoor range is a 32yrd corner to corner shot and no elevated shots. Most of the stickbow shooters I know welcome a chance at some longer shots, especially if they're at larger targets like standing bears and mountain goats, etc.

[BowDonkey]

That looks more like a game mount display at Cabela's. I personally would find this course alot tougher than the same targets in a wooded enviroment with distances being the same. I also can't shoot a 5 spot at all. I think it has something to do with all the "nerve agents" the military tested on me.

[BLACK WOLF]

I think that is a beautiful indoor course...especially when you consider you have 2 levels to shoot from!!! I wish there was a range near here with that option or an indoor 3D course period!

I would rate it about a 6 or 7, which I believe can appeal to every level of barebow shooter, which is something I believe a course should try to appeal to.

It does make it easier for someone, who judges distance, due to yardages being referenced by the block targets and a known maximum range of 40 yrds, but for those of us that feel the shot and the distance, it won't be much different than shooting a typical outdoor course.

Ray ;^)

[Str8 Shooter]

I forgot to mention in my first posts that it isn't a static course. You shoot each target from a marked station, one side of the range to the other. We change the targets each week, sometimes moving them, changing angles, re-numbering them to make it different. We also set up shots through the trees in the center or over the backs of another animal. Also, on the upper level you do have rafters to contend with (not a problem for compounders but it is for barebow shooters).

I agree that if you know distances that it does make the course easier but as said, a 40 yard shot is still 40 yards. The upper deck is really what makes it interesting. Shooting at ground level is much different than up top. The angles just make the shots harder.

So what do you think a good score would be? I'll give some help. We have 259 compound shooters each week and me, the sole recurve shooter. We allow bino's and rangefinders. There are less than 15 people who can consistantly shoot over 300 out of 320. The average score of the compound crowd is between 240-270. How do you think you'd do?

Chris

[sts3d]

Cool shoot ! I think that thisducks4U could probably shoot well over 220-230 maybe better (yes he's that good INDOORS)I think that Mike and myself should haul on up there and try it....Whadduh ya think Mike? The Badger state ain't that far compared to Sabinal.

[Stick'em]

It's a pretty cool setup. Better then shooting paper IMHO......then again I love 3D (any and all).

[Kevin]

It wouldnt compare. I shot the Laughlin Nev shoot this past weekend. 4 courses of 20 rhinehart targets each set in the rugged mountains above the Colorado river. Hmm, for distance our stakes were set out at 30 yds max. but the real story is the barren rocky landscape and the winds that wip thru the passes. We watched a group of 5 trad guys shoot at a ram about 25 yds out, not too far right? Steep uphill, and the wind was gusting thru the pass so hard it would blow your bow arm off target. 4 misses and 1 body 5. I narrowly missed getting an 8 ring, but was quite happy just to hit the target. One of the things about the indoor shoots, if you get used to the course, you know the yardage based on the previous target. But, it looks like fun anyways, so I'll give a 2.5

[swampy]

I,m not sure 3D,s could get a fair rateing.Maybe an indoor course like what your showing based on average distance and target size but out side even marked field course,s vary in difficulty based on terrain.

Around here 3D,s are mostly for FUN and shooters are encouraged to move as close or far(IBO compound stakes only for safety). I get more encourgement from compounders than fellow stick shooters sometimes. If there,s a trophy at stake sure you,ll hafta follow club rules and distance,s be it to close or to far but hey ya know that going in.

It,s amazing the # of wheel guys that say our course is to easy(we don,t have the room to saftly put out IBO stakes at our club) yet NOBODY has ever turned in a perfect score

Anybody thats says somebodys cheating because they use a rest stabalizer site ect is just as bad as anybody giveing another a hard time for shooting at the kiddie stakes.It works both ways.

Shoot straight and have FUN!!

[3dchamp]

From what I can see of the pictures ,I would consider this a difficult course, I bet the trad guys have a fit about the 40 yards . What kinda scores do the stick guys put out on this and I would love to come shoot it ,where is your shop and do you have any tornys.
Bill

[thisbucks4u]

It,s amazing the # of wheel guys that say our course is to easy(we don,t have the room to saftly put out IBO stakes at our club) yet NOBODY has ever turned in a perfect score

Funny how that works isnt it?

[MDBowhunter]

I was wondering what is used for the flooring? Are the arrows protected from missed shots, especially the second level shots?

[Str8 Shooter]

The floor of the course is a dirt floor covered with wood chips. I think the last time we got new chips it was cedar...nice smell. We don't have many guys breaking arrows from missed targets, more breakage on tree limbs or shots in the support rods in the legs. Our store is located in Delafield, WI. This is actually the last week of leagues. I think we'll leave the targets up until the end of April when we'll then relocate many of them to our outdoor course. The store sits on about 19 acres, right off I-94, and we set up a full 28 target course from May 1st. until Nov 1st. That course is set up with obstructed shots, odd angles, an elevated platform. I think it's a pretty medium difficulty course for most guys.

As to the average stick shooter scoring... most guys are between 170-210. I shot the course last year with some buddies (before I worked there) and the best I managed was a 189. I think at the time the best anyone there had seen a trad shooter score was a 215 or so. This year, however, my shooting is much better and I'm averaging scores in the upper 240 range, personal best of 259. My goal was to score a 256 by the end of leagues which averages out to 8's on every target.

One of my league teamates is good friends with Scott Anczak and said he's going to shoot our course this week sometime. I'd like to see how he does so I can see how the one of the best shoots. My buddy says he thinks he'll shoot over 300. That'll be something to see. :shooting:

Part of the reason I posted this is to see how you guys across the country are setting up 3-D courses. I'm interested in competitively shooting and I want to see what to expect if I go somewhere. I'm not sure what types of shots to expect and what distances you shoot at? Most outdoor courses I shoot at offer more obstructed but closer shots. Just curious to see what you shoot in your neck of the woods. Where do you guys all shoot? What do you consider to be a good 3-D course?

Chris