Limb vibration and it's affects

[Pinelander]

Learned something today.
Duhhhh... totally eliminated ALL limb vibration on the Warfer where I'm using medium carbon limbs (64" bow).
My groups tightened dramatically and IMMEDIATELY.
Duhhhh... sometimes you'd think I was an Idiot Out Walking Around N... LOL ... :p

These problems/solutions usually sink-in a bit quicker for me, but in this case I had not experimented enough. And also, I had not been aware of a new product that I discovered today that provides TOTAL recurve limb vibration reduction. This may not be a problem with shorter limbed bows, but it definitely was with my 64"er. Sure, it slowed down the speed... but for indoor target it's the way to go. Even for 3-D, I suspect that making the trajectory adjustment might be a small price to pay with a greater return of consistency. ;)

[van_fl]

what is it dah

[tuffshot]

It seems for every benifit like speed and accuracy there is a price to pay that leaves one scratching their head. It seems like with 2 steps forward the price is one step back.

This same :goodvevil has been going on since the beginning of time :)

[BowDonkey]

Well Piney, how'd ya do it?

[Pinelander]

Sorry, forgot to mention I was going to go outside and take some pictures. I keep getting e-mails from this guy that wants to sell me his Hoyt PM. :sbrug:

It's a new product, but probably not all that different then what's been tried or used before. It's from a company called Richwood Archery CSS. They're called TunerZ. Comes in a package of four. Made totally out of rubber and they latch/wrap all the way around the limb. Neat thing is, you can re-arrange anywhere on the limb with no adhesive and without unstringing the bow.

Another minus about these things Tuffy... not sure why, but they make sort of a snap noise... definitely not a sound reduction item. But that's not what I was looking for anyways. I don't have vibration problems with my higher-pound, shorter limbs. But these medium 40#ers were shakin' like a leaf. Hmmm... wonder if I wrapped some neoprene underneath 'em before putting them on? More experimentation...

Pictures comin' later... if ya all don't find it on the e-waves first.

[Bob Gordon]

Piney...The best way to kill those unwanted vibrations is to make a skull cap out of tinfoil and wear it when shooting all the time. Then all you will get is those "good vibrations" that are really nice. It will stop those nasty thoughts you are thinking about me right now too!!...LOL....Warf

[Viper]

Piney -

Limbs have to vaibrate, else they'd snap. I've heard a (compound) guy today talking about the CSS stuff. Haven't seen it in action yet, but it either changing the energy that goes into the vibration, into another form, like the noise you mentioned, or it's adding some additional inertia to the system to help dissipate the vibration.

Does it work or is it worth it? Depends on how much the vibration bothers you and how much the trade offs bother you!

Viper out.

[Pinelander]

Not at all Bob... I've had other bows that were this long and this poundage,
limbs were bouncing as well. But they were not worthy... kicked liked mules, and this one doesn't. :D

Should've seen the old Wing Presentation II a guy was shooting the other day... limbs were flapping so much, looked like it was gonna fly away. LOL
With all the shooting as of late, I'm noticing things about bows that I never paid attention to before. Ain't it great? :)

Wait 'til ya see the old Wilson Bros. target shooter I've got coming next week. A metal-risered 67" bow, White limbs on a Red riser and maybe a Check It clinging on to it (you know... after every shot ya gotta "check it" to see if anything came loose. LOL )

[Pinelander]

Viper, yeah I know... some more than others, depending on the design.

I'm not sure yet, all I know is that I shot about 4 ends, then put these dang things on. The next 3 ends were definitely tighter and I don't believe the results emminated from a psychological upsurge in my shootng concentration just because I installed them. LOL

Was outside a bit ago taking pics and moving them up and down the limb. They are 11" down from the limb tips right now and the limbs still vibrate up near the tips of course, but no reverberation noise and flapping is greatly minimized. When I approached 14" away from tips, overall vibration is back as usual and you can hear the reverberation as well.

Only time will tell about the trade-offs. Didn't have time to do chrono testing today, might be able to do it tomorrow night though.

Donk - the stuff you were doing with innertube rubber some time back, made me think about you when I was stretching/wrapping these rubber thingys around the limbs.

[BLACK WOLF]

Hey Piney,

Please share the numbers with us.

For example:

Did you score higher on a NFAA 300 round with them attached?

Did your groups go from a 6" group to a 4" group?

Something along those lines.

Ray ;^)

[BLACK WOLF]

Ooops...ya beat me to it ;^)

Ray ;^)

[1bjd]

Lets see what that stuff looks like! Warf you could sell those skull caps. I would take two! :) John

[BowDonkey]

Piney, I used a combination of silicone and a tractor inner tube. This took the vibration right out of it. To do it again, I would not use the silicone, too much mess. Just line the surface of the limb pocket with inner tube. I'd probably try something thin like bicycle first and go thicker as the situation warrants. I also made my shims out of innertube, got 3 layers in the bottom limb and 2 in the top. I don't know if I ever said it, but this bow shoots. It's safe to say it would have taken several years off getting good. Of course I'm a spectacular shot with anything, so I guess that ain't saying much. :)

[Bob Gordon]

Piney...To bad your not left handed, I have a pair of white glass limbs for one of those metal risered Wilson Bros. bows I would give you. Bummer is they won't work on a right handed riser, they would make it a 66" bow also....warf

[Pinelander]

OK... here's some pictures -

TunerZ package (http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid161/p46c5a7eb059dba1a895861257bd9dd9e/f4c42bb7.jpg)
(comes 4 in a pkg.. retail 22 bills)

TunerZ on limb (http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid161/p4586b76eb1216563677182d734b24c48/f4c42be1.jpg)
(ugly... ain't they)

TunerZ full limb view (http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid161/p7ebbf6d8be76e35d79016dbc59dc9653/f4c42bcf.jpg)
(pay no attention to that growth on the tree)

[Pinelander]

GIVE them to me?... what ya trying to tell me there, Bob. LOL

Didn't I tell you? I have an old lefty Bear Hunter I've been practicing with to take advantage of my LE dominance. LOL

[Viper]

Piney -

It says Forbidden - you do not habe permission to view this file ... :mad: ... and your dog will die.

Or something to that effect.

Viper out.

[Pinelander]

It's fixed now isn't it?

[Viper]

Piney - Nope.

Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /picture/sraid161/p46c5a7eb059dba1a895861257bd9dd9e/f4c42bb7.jpg on this server.

Apache/1.3.29 Server at www.imagestation.com Port 80

Viper out.

[Pinelander]

Alright, alright...:crymeariv

[Viper]

Piney -

Ah ... there's a sight on that bow?!?!?!?!?!? :sbrug:

:lol:

Ya know, ol buddy. Not on my bow. Seriously. Two things, any added weight to the arrow acts like it's in the arrow, any added weight to the string acts like it on thew arrow, any added weight to the limb acts like it's on the arrow. OK, I know you got that, 'cause you mentioned it, yourself.

Second, ya got a big hunk 'o something right smack on the working part of the limb. I'm not a bowyer (I don't even play one on TV), but to my limited knowledge of limb function, the added momentun, coupled with the pressure (restriction) you're putting on the expansive and compressive surfaces of the limbs, might or might not do it a world of good. Probably OK for a compund, given their limited travel, but a recurve!!! Not this duck, :thankyou: very much.

Again, don't know, might be perfectly safe, but not on any of my bows. Well, except maybe my GM, it doesn't have any hand shock or noticeable vibration, but there have been more than a few times I wanted to wrap it around a tree!

Piney, I'd get warf's opinion, and maybe talk to Hoyt, if they're Hoyt limbs, but seriously, I'd take those off pretty quickly. Sorry, just my take on it. Oh, yeah, the sight's OK, that can stay!

Viper out.

[Pinelander]

Ya think maybe that snap noise I described is the limb's forward momentum being sucked up by those black abberations? Is it much different than the mushroom-shaped limbsavers I've seen attached to recurve limbs in that same area? I agree... the working part of the limb IS being slowed down, the slower arrow was confirmation of that.

Let's see what happens... I'm feeling brave, will shoot a 300 round tomorrow night and report back. :)

[Viper]

Piney -

You know your stuff. Just proceed wth caution, my friend.

BTW - I don't like limb savers on stick bows either. Scare the begibers outta me.

What they're doing is the same as you touching the vibrating limb, just dampening the vibration. Only difference is your hand isn't going along for the ride! By moving them up or down you're finding the crest of the vibration, as possed to the node. (Unless I have that backwords, it's getting late, gonna go and bother the wife for a while.)

:goodvevil

Viper out.

[mjhall]

I was thinking that, if the "tin foil skull cap" came down and fit tight over the ears, it would probably quiet a bow a lot. not sure if your subconscious mind could see through it though.
Mike

[Scooter]

Pinelander,

When I saw your post it jogged my memory that I had seen a one piece silencer like that on a compound. Went to the bow shop and found they are made/sold by bowtech. Must be a bear to put on compound with the cables. axles etc. in the way. Anyway they said they didn't carry them alone. Just looked on ebay (whereelse can you find everything but a kidney) and viola there they are. I just bought a set and will try them on my next bow. Posted is a picture. I like the idea of being able to slide it around to find the best match of noise reduction without speed loss. Note these would have to be away from the tips as the I.D. would be too wide.

[van_fl]

Just move them down to about 4 inches above/below the riser the limbs. Speed won’t be affected much and the noise will be within acceptable limits for hunting( like the pic of my warf.)

[Pinelander]

OK Van... I know what you and Viper are saying. After lengthy experimentations last week, I have discovered that they work the best no more than 8" up from the limb butts. Anything further up than that and the snapping sound I'm hearing has me worried. But I will stand my ground on the initial result of arrow grouping consistency. Maybe it was the arrow and tuning setup on this bow, as the limb speed was slowed down enough to make the arrow act stiffer. As in... I was shooting a weak-spined arrow to begin with. :rolleyes: