My gripe of the week... [Archive]

Bob Gordon

03-20-2005, 09:25 AM

Was at a 3-D shoot last week, was squaded with a longbow archer shooting expensive woodies, no problem there. His 125 gn field points starting coming off about the third target, another archer and I were digging them out of the foam targets with a pocket knife. Does the longbow guy offer to help? Nope, just stands at the shooting stake and fiddles with his quiver. He says it just isn't worth it and we are holding up the group behind us. I'm starting to get a little steamed by the EIGHTH point that comes off. We only got three ponts out of the targets, do we get any help from the shooter? Nope again. I got on him pretty good as I had ruined three spendy carbons last year driving them into a hidden tapered field point in a target. When the shoot was over he says he has a pair of needle nose pliers in his quiver but field points are cheap so he doesn't ever try to find ones that come off. This at a compound archery club on there targets, wouldn't be surprised to see them ban woodies or trad's next time. Compound guys get real upset fast when they hit a woodie field point left in a target as they should. So archery has it's dorks like most any sport I guess. Anybody else have this problem and gripe??....warf

Desert Archer

03-20-2005, 10:33 AM

Since I gave up 3D shooting Bob, I can't chime in other than to say jerks come in every flavor and color you can imagine (being a retired cop I used to be kind of an expert on jerks - LOL).

Got my own gripe of the week. Was shooting in an FITA 900 yesterday and a guy from Prescott was passing out flyers about a Senior Olympic event to be held there in July. Seems it's going to be an NFAA Indoor, touted as a chance to get in out of the heat in their air conditioned range.

Anyway, for the gripe part. The flyer clearly states the compounds and Olympic recurves will shoot at 20 yards - official distance for NFAA - BUT Traditional Archers (no sights) will shoot at only 15 yards.

It's the same old saw. Bet you some Trad Police decided 20 yards was over the official 17.3 so they reduced it to 15. I am so offended I think I'll go just to sign up and shoot with the Olympic recurves, and do it barebow. What an insult.

Dave

Bob Gordon

03-20-2005, 10:55 AM

DA...Bet the shrinking of the trad distance was by request of some local trad's where the shoot is going to be held. Sure get tired of this dummying down of barebow stuff. Don't know why people don't want to learn to shoot past point blank range, guess it's the bow hunter mentality and people just being to lazy to learn to shoot past their "comfort range" of point blank and closer. Bring back long distance shooting!! (anything past 20 yds I guess nowadays)....warf

BLACK WOLF

03-20-2005, 11:00 AM

Hey Bob...You got mail ;^)

I sent you a PM.

Ray

Unregistered

03-20-2005, 02:01 PM

Hello Bob. I had the same experience awhile ago. However when I explained to the individual that leaving the points in could damage others arrows he said he did not think of that and proceeded to get any points that came off.
He also said thanks for the input. Couldn`t tell if you educated your woody guy or just got mad.---Mike

Viper

03-20-2005, 02:18 PM

Warf -

How many times do you see a whole bunch of shooters stopping what they're doing to help a kid or new guy retrieve an arrow buried in a thicket, or in a plank behind a target. That's what this game is supposed to be about.

Yup, there sure are a bunch of the guys you described, but happily they're still in the minority, I HOPE !!!! But, you're right, only take one to really get ya pissed.

Viper out.

Bob Gordon

03-20-2005, 02:39 PM

Viper...Your right, if the group your shooting is looking for a lost arrow and another trad group comes up behind you most of the time they will join in and give a hand for a couple minutes, mostly pretty nice guys who have spent there share of time rooting around behind a target or two. BUT get some groups of compound archers show up behind you and it can be a whole new ball game! Most are OK but some act like they never missed a arrow in there life and really resent any one or group holding up there little part of the archery world. My list of gripes could go on for a long time but it's Sunday so I deceided to be nice to everyone today..LOL..warf

DAS

03-20-2005, 04:59 PM

Man,
I can't imagine being dumbed down to 15 yards!?! At some point, what's the point?? I few steps closer and you could just bonk a deer in the head with a shovel and be done with it! In case anyone forgot, primitive man invented the bow so he could get PAST spear range, not under it! Any competition that limited me to 15 yard shots wouldn't be worth the gas to get there! Does anyone else think that's crazy?? I know DA does. :2cents:

thisbucks4u

03-20-2005, 05:34 PM

I think you all would be surprised at the number of points left in those targets. Not just by the tapered crowd but by compound shooters as well. I cant say as though I would have done all the work in getting those points out of the targets. I WOULD have instructed him in the finer points of common courtesy towards fellow archers, and then had him either dig em out, or quit shootin. JMHO

Papabull

03-20-2005, 05:43 PM

especially those glue-on points. Points with inserts pulled out aren't so bad. They don't form a cup to absolutely suck in your arrow and trash it. The glue-on points are notorious for pulling out in the target, but fortunately you can usually avoid hitting those unseen arrow-busters by keeping your shots inside the 10-ring.

:jk:

Stagmitis

03-20-2005, 08:55 PM

I think instead of required shooter proficiency we should have wood arrow making and glueing the point on right proficency.

Those darn points got me too!

1bjd

03-21-2005, 02:52 AM

Bob, there are so many lazy people in this world that it is a wonder any shoot 3-d. Many think that it is easier to just replace a point than to make sure their trash does not ruin someone elses arrow. I keep a pair of needlenose in the quiver for just that purpose. Usually after ruined a very pricey carbon on a point some mindless sob left behind. As to a 15yard shoot,are you kidding air conditioned or not seems like an insult to me. Can you see HH at a shoot like that? :2cents: John

Eaglearcher

03-21-2005, 03:57 AM

Obviously a common problem. Only yesterday i had to get a guy to pull out a pile from a butt. Here in the UK most shooting is done at layered foam butts. Getting a pile out is really easy, you just shove an arrow into the hole and push the pile out of the back of the butt, but still some people are too lazy to try.
I have always used FERRUTITE (I think thats how it is spelt) to glue on my piles. Its a hotmelt glue and i have used it on alluminium, carbon and wooden shafts and have never had a pile come out in a butt or a 3D.

With regard to the 15 yard 3D shoot. I am used to shooting at 3D's at up to 60 yards. Most deers are shot at 30 to 50 yards and the 15 yard shots are reserved for the rock rascals. I know that the hunting purists will say that they would never shoot a deer at that distance, but this isn't hunting. If i knew of a 3D shoot where i was going to have to shoot everything at 20 yards and under, i think that i would stay at home and buy a gun and a barrel of fish!!!!

Heathen

03-21-2005, 05:37 AM

Eagle Archer,
I've used Ferruletite(sp?) on woodies.The only problem I had was when the shafts were stained with Rit dye, denatured alcohol mix. I learned the hard way and lost lots of points. If I sanded the taper they would stay on.

As bad as I shoot, I've never ruined an arrow by hitting a point in a 3d target. :)

Jim

Desert Archer

03-21-2005, 06:39 AM

Eaglearcher

03-21-2005, 06:59 AM

Desert Archer

Apologies for any offence caused. :mistake: It was just that i had heard that some 3D shoots only have short shots and i obviously got hold of the wrong end of the stick.
I am fully aware of your quest to promote field archery over there, and i wish you every sucess in your endeavor.
As far as the indoor shoot is concerned, we also shoot this here in the UK. We call it a PAA round and it is based on the old GNAS Worcester round.
We all shoot it at 20 yards and that includes my 8 yr old daughter who shoots unsighted compound.
I cannot see why anyone should feel it necessary to shoot any closer than this. after all the target is bigger than a 35cm IFAA field face, and we shoot them up to 32 yds.

Heathen

03-21-2005, 07:12 AM

Eaglearcher,

I'm sure this will come as a shock to you (smiley face goes here) but some of us here in the States actually do shoot other venues besides 3D. The event I was describing is an NFAA (National Field Archery Association) Indoor tournament. That is 60 arrows in 12 ends of 5 arrows each at a 40cm blue and white target - at 20 yards.

My objection (and the insult) is that the people putting this on are reducing the standardized, nationally accepted distance of 20 yards down to 15 yards for "Traditional Archers (no sights)", as though a barebow shooter isn't capable of hitting anything at 20 yards.

Dave

DA,

The only problem I have with shooting 3D at longer distances is most archers use 3D as practice for hunting. I'll try to explain this the best I can. I for one would be hesitant to take a long shot on a game animal with a recurve or longbow not knowing how much downrange energy is left in the arrow after traveling past let's say 30yds.

Sorry if I got off the track with this.

Jim

Papabull

03-21-2005, 07:14 AM

I know some think it's just a kind gesture to help compensate for the traditional barebow shooter's incompetence, but I find the "affirmative action" mindset to be very condescending. Now that you're in a "special" class, do they want you to ride the short yellow bus to the shoot, too? :(

Desert Archer

03-21-2005, 07:18 AM

Eagle and Jim,

Neither of you offended me - I sure hope I'm a little tougher than that (LOL). I just wanted to clarify that my "gripe of the week" had nothing to do with 3D. It was just another, and rather blatant example of the dumbing down of the so called "traditional" side of archery.

Dave

Heathen

03-21-2005, 07:30 AM

DA,

I like a challenge when target shooting. I shoot at our 100yd target for money at every shoot. Never hit it, :) but I shoot at it anyway. I also stump shoot at 30 plus yds.
I don't feel comfident about taking long shots on game animals with archery tackle. I have a 25-06 and a 280Rem. that I'm very confident with. :)

Jim

BowDonkey

03-21-2005, 08:35 AM

I shoot woodies exclusively and rarely lose a point. But I had no idea it raised such havoc with carbons and aluminums. Wood shooters have the same problem center punching lost tips, plus wood shafts sliding up next to a lost insert isn't good either. If anyone cares I can post a simple way of mounting points on woodies so they almost never come off. Points should be checked after every winter just because the low humidity that time of year can loosen them. Now to address the second gripe, since I shoot mainly for fun. Wouldn't life be grand if all we did was for that reason. But since it's for fun I shoot the Compound finger release class up here. Much more challening. Up here it seems like the "traditional yardages" are kept short because the targets are set up by people who shoot compounds. Most are unfamiliar with unsighted bows and what they can do. And no doubt the ones they have seen have been poor shots. So there's my 2"scents" and you all must be extremely proud of how well I remained civil. :)

Kevin

03-21-2005, 10:32 PM

Gosh, we actually spent a minute looking for glued on field point that came off when the woody broke on a rock after missing the target. I pick up folks busted carbons and put them in my quiver to dispose of properly all the time. Inconsiderate people come in all flavors. Most of the guys who shoot stickbows are good guys. Lets cut em some slack on the distance issue. Ok?

Ya know I too have been at this game for about 32 yrs, admittedly most of my organized shoots I attended in the eary days were broadhead shoots, but I was reading a neat old book written before the compounds were invented, in it the author talked a lot about various shooting styles and equiptment. Sights were put on almost every recurve bow shot on the field courses, that is if you wanted to get consistent. Not many bare bow shooters could score very well at long yardages back then either without some sort of aiming system. Oh you had some who were phenomenal shots, or masters of various techniques like string walking, but the average joe would stick a sight on his bow to gain an edge for those long shots.