Can you lose your salvation?

[Cato]

OK, I am a Baptist. Well, actually, I am a Christian, and a member of a Babtist church. I did not necessarily embrace all their doctrine (although it seems I'm in there with most of it). It is just the place where I can worship, be involved, and learn. An importantly, they teach the Word.

I believe in the eternal security of the believer for several reasons. I'm curious to hear from others before I throw mine out there.

But here is my main question: Can you reject the faith, after real conversion?

Let's hear some of your thoughts.

Cato

[Esquire]

Cato,

I don't think man loses his free will when he "gets saved" and turns control of his life over to the Lord. So the answer for me is, sure, he can "lose" his salvation, meaning that he can choose to reject God, after having accepted Him. However, I have had dear Baptist freinds who saw it differently, and will insist to the end that anyone who "walks away" from a relationship with God was never saved in the first place.

Regardless of which one of us is right, salvation is more than "fire insurance" and the end result for the man described above is the same, whether he later rejects God, or simply proves to the world that he was never saved.

If a man cannot genuinely walk with God, then walk away from God, I'm not sure what to make of this passage from Hebrews ch. 6:

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=65&chapter=6&version=31#fen-NIV-30035b)]to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
Mike

[Matt]

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=65&chapter=6&version=31#fen-NIV-30035b)]to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
Mike

Every man/woman has their free angency. I beleive you can, although unlikely, deny your testimony even after being converted. I do agree a lot of people who deny their testimony never were truly converted in the first place though.

Mike, I beleive this verse is talking of the sons of perdition. They are the ones who deny Christ after truly knowing him and able to speak with the tounge of angels (the Holy Ghost). These are the ones who will die the second death.

[Garry]

Cato, I found this on the web. It speaks to your question.

http://www.coghomeschool.org/site/cog_archives/booklets/What%20Do%20You%20Mean%20The%20Unpardonable%20Sin. htm (http://)

[Garry]

The hyper-link I posted doesn't seem to work. Try the one below and if it doesn't work just cut and paste it into your browser.

http://cgca.net/pabco/unpardon.htm (http://)

[larry]

In a word, no you cannot loose your salvation.

Esquire, you should know not to take one vs. out of context. :) all of ch.6 in Hebrews talks about the walk of faith as it pertains to an enduring walk. evidences of true salvation are seen in those who run the race with endurance, looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith.

All of us have seen people within the church that have been there possibly many years, and then various situations cause them to fall away. Have they not been enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift just by being in the presence of the bride of Christ?

they have departed from us because they were never truely of us. kind of a wheat and tares thing

[Esquire]

Larry,

I understand both sides of this debate. We do need to define what we mean by "lose", but I have always felt that if this issue is my only difference with someone (theologically speaking) then it doesn't amount to much.

For what it's worth, I don't rely upon that verse alone for my understanding about this issue.

Mike

[Cato]

Stick, thanks for the effort, but I still could not get the link to work. I'll try again.

For me, I believe in the eternal security of the one who has made a genuine conversion (Esquire :) ). Here is why, generally. We are saved by Grace. Nothing we could do could earn or deserve it. If we can, in turn, lose our salvation for not having "maintained it", then we are sort of doing a salvation by grace + works, or so it seems. I cannot reconcile my self, at least so far, to the idea that Jesus freely died to offer me eternal life, and yet I may be in jepordy of losing it for not having walked the right path, nor do I see it in the Book.

Ergo, my real question. Can you chose to reject? The Hebrews text is much easier to read that way. I have heard teachers (quiet well educated Biblical scholars) explain the Hebrews text in another way, but they seemed to have to go around the world to do it. And the notion does seem to bear itself out in the real world.

I am not in any way asserting this as fact. I am just saying that so far, I don't see where the Scripture clearly teaches you cannot chose to walk away from the faith.

As for whether or not a person has ever really been saved, Jesus said: (Blount paraphrase) In that day many will come to me and say Lord, Lord, did we not do miracles and cast out demons in Your name........and I will say depart from me you workers of iniquity. That tells me that you can talk a lot of talk, you can have an intellectual understanding of who Christ is and what He did, but still fall short of salvation by not having allowed Him to be Lord of your life.

I still have a hard time reading Hebrews 6 without the possiblity it means one can walk away.

[Esquire]

Cato,

I did not read anything there that I am not in full agreement with.

Mike

[Swanny]

Gently speaking here, "Can you loose your salvation?" is, IMO, rather 'me-centered', though I realize it's presented in that way all the time.

Turning it around from a Christocentric view one would have to ask....

Can Christ lose a Christian?

If the Triune God does the fundamental work of 'saving', then it would necessarily follow that the gifts of grace Christ's crosswork secured must be efficacious enough to actually and fully secure someone's identity and union in Christ in order to be noted as 'saved', or else another, less poignant defining word would have been used, it seems.

I like Jn. 17:3's broader definition of eternal life...'that they may know me" Christ! If someone walks away from Christ and never comes back, it's obvious they never saw 'the glory of God in the face of Christ'. Gee, Moses was impressed when he got a mere glimpse of God's glory...think about what happens when sinner actually meets the Christ. :)

[larry]

Amen Swanny Amen!!!

[larry]

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."

For since , in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For the Jews demand a sign, and Greeks seek wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks , Christ, the power of God and the wisdom of God.