Attitude,what's Up

[CarolinaBob]

First I am an old geezer and have been posting on "trad" sites since the early 90s which is probably the start. I have shot bows for over 50 years and I think I know what traditional archery is about. Over the years I have witnessed an increase in whiny big mouths at these sites. Them and the ignorant trad police are becoing more of a pain. The "wall" seems to be the worst. It seems that many people whom I respect have stopped posting or have never posted because of these cyber punks. What is it about a computer than makes people think they can attack whom ever they feel like.

[Viper]

Bob -

You already know the answer. In cybersapce, you're a faceless entity and can present yourself as anything you like. Everyone gets equal footing as long as you have a computer and an internet connection, regardless of background, or alleged background, intent or agenda. When someone deliberately gets out of line, there's no real way to hit them "up side there head", like you would in person. Getting into an arguement with them just feeds their egos.

:smash:

The flip side, is that while most people come here to share information, some are here for pure entertainment value, enjoying the cyber duel.

What keeps bothering me is that the solution is pretty simple and very effective. As soon as you figure out someone is a "cyber punk", put them on your ignore list (real or virtual). Pisses them off to no end, because they can't get what they want and doesn't waste your time. Heck, that even works in person.

Viper out.

[Ifish]

"Whiny big Mouths"

"Ignorant trad police"

"Cyber punks"

"What is it about a computer than makes people think they can attack whom ever they feel like."


Carefull Bob, you don't become what you hate. Not taking a side here...........just saying.

[BowDonkey]

I could run with this one, but I won't. It seems hopeless anymore. Anyone want the Traditional Archers Koran " Bible "? I need to retire.

[scotty]

i got aggravated because i couldnt watch the last big hatefest, i'm kind of a little kid mentally sometimes:o

[ahshoot]

Hard to disagree with the original post as you'd be whining to do so :)

[SteveGabriel]

Just tell the Trad Police "Pluck Yew" and continue with your shooting session.

[Desert Archer]

Just tell the Trad Police "Pluck Yew" and continue with your shooting session.
I tried to buy a t-shirt that said that for my ELB shooting friend but the web site was one of those where you have to join up and have a password. All I wanted was to buy a stinking t-shirt, not join their club. (frown face goes here)

Dave

[Sam Dunham]

Just call em back and tell them that they will never go back to sheep.

[Straitera]

Threads, sans ego, would be much more enjoyable. Maybe the "tudes" are trying to better position themselves on the "noticem pole". Remember; however, older hunters/shooters went through a very similar thing trying their wings early on. We just remember doing it with a lot less disrespect. Yep! I'm 57 in March and in that group. Without the hormonally precipitated tunnel vision blinders we can see attitudes clearly for what they are...a toxic irritant. Most older archers prefer quiet, sedate, exhiliration. You learn to appreciate the wood's music. The movie begins as soon as you take your comfortable well chosen place of concealment. If you've chosen well, you'll be lead role in an action thriller. Bringing home the bacon is icing on the cake. I came here to socialize and learn techniques and things I might have missed through the years. This place is like a warm campfire after a good day hunting (as if any day hunting wasn't good). Dave and his recurve, me and my longbow, and you with whatever you prefer to hunt with can scratch, fart, shuffle, and see who can tell the biggest lies. What are friends for right? Thought provoking opinions and threads from you "old Geezers" is gold. Anyone who doesn't appreciate what you have to offer will surely regret the chance. I greatly respect your knowledge. Don't bail on me now. I have far too much to learn. Best wishes in whatever suits you. Merry Christmas! Straitera

[paws]

Reg, cyber punks and trad police.
I agree Bob, seems to be more and more sniping, nit-pickin and and crying goin on these days but don't let it get you down. The way I got it figured , there is more than enough quality folks on these sites to offset the elitests
and the punks. Too much knowledge and history to pass and receive to back off . Would be interesting to throw a big BBQ at any of our members house, invite all the contributers to these forums, (haven't figured out how to finance this shin-dig yet ) , everyone attending ,wearing their user name in big text right across their chest . Have to state at this time that Van would not be considered as "host" for this event (health issue here.....wouldn't want that thing on his head sliding off onto the grill) anyhow , back to the BBQ,I'm positive over the course of the day there would be tons of bow talk, tech. talk of all aspects of our sport and about 99.9% of these discussions would be done with civility and good nature . Not that everyone will be in agreement with each other and why should they be, but the the talk would be "MAN TO MAN ".People have a tendency when they are eyeball to eyeball and within arms reach of each other to treat each other with a degree of mutual respect , ( but there have been times like at my inlaws get togethers that might blow this theory out the window .) Point is... its kind of easy to sit in annonimity behind the keyboard and snipe and be hatefull , a bit more difficult, face to face .Reg. the "Trad Police " ,I define myself ,Traditional,instintive,recurve off the shelf . If someone asks how and what I shoot , this is my reply I do not care in the least if this definition is correct or not in others minds . If I go to a "shoot" that has a clearly defined
rules that they deem "traditional" I will shoot under their rules or I will go elswhere , my choice , but I will not try to push my definition on them or anyone else . Anyhow back to the bbq, would be nice if everyone that hunts would contribute to the vitals, unfortunaty if we have this get together before next huntin season , my share will have to be "roadkill gopher with a
nice Creole sauce ."
"never pat a dog when his back's on fire ."

[blackwidowbowman]

I too am an older bowhunter, I agree with the original post. It makes me mad as hell when one of these blow hards, who likely has only been in the sport about a minute, starts spewing a bunch of "bladerdash" and confusing honest people who love the sport and are trying to fine their way.

I try to make sure that any advice I give is just that. If it is opinion, I state such. I hate these little one line responses too! If you are going to give advice, explain it, in detail, or hold your fire until your are ready to do so.

We can create a place where newbes want to come, or we can turn people off. Ego, should go when it comes to teaching anything. There are just too many ways of enjoying this sport, art, or whatever you want to call it.

A lot of us old guys should stand frim, and hold the line, to be there when we are needed. We must pass on the history, knowing where we have been, will keep us from the pit-falls of never having that information.

Just my opinion, that and $1.25 will get you a cup of coffee at MacDonalds.

[1bjd]

:jesus: PEACE BROTHERS!

Hope this doesn't date me!

There will never be an end to haters, I know I am not "TRAD" I just love shooting recurves. It truly is a better way to hunt for me.

John

[standingstone]

I agree with all of you, As a "newbe" to this sport I will admit I posted on other web sites and after reading what others said I stoped for awhile (felt like the dumbest person it the thread). I have meet a hatter from one of the other web sites (he didn't know that I go on thier aswell) it shut him up real quick when I told him what I thought of him considering it was a "trad" only web site and I honestly don't think he ever touched a trad bow in his life and if he did it was an accident.

Alittle back ground on me I was a compound shooter, had to have a fast bow, carbon arrows, top of the line site and relase. I would miss a 3-d target and get mad. The turn around for me was shooting with a bunch of older guys with recurves on day and I must say they hit almost as much as I did and if they missed broke and arrow they just laughed and had a good time. that was the end of the compound for me. Now I am 31 I only hunt with a recurve, no sites for gun season its a flint lock muzzleloader open sites.

[stickman]

I rarely post on here or any were else. Been shootin bows forover fifty years,I just can`t stand any one telling me what eqipment is trad. If these young pups would reasearch their archery heritage they would know its all archery,just different disciplines. I`m an archer first and I do all the other thing we can do with a bow. Most of the people that I know to be trad police came to the bow from the mechanical thing ,but yet they tell all what is or isn`t trad. The videos that are on you tube should be manditory watching for all of them. Rich

[Ted A. Young]

There seems to be a growing intolerance of peoples "opinions". And it works both ways. I mean when you can email the owner of a site and express an "opinion" to him personally, not open on "his" site and get your azz baned is a bit much. If I ask you to my house and "ask" your opinion and you express it in my yard, not in my house, I don't think I ask you not to come back. Course that's just ole lovable kind gentle resentfull COB:cussing: :crymeariv :cheers: ;) !

[BowDonkey]

Help, I just used that Ignore button and I can't see any of my posts!

[LostHawg]

I think a lot of the "attitude" is perceived attitude. Generally posted in jest.

BowDonkey

Re: Attitude,what's Up

Help, I just used that Ignore button and I can't see any of my posts!

That's funny right there. :D

[Sam Dunham]

Losthog, I have found that to be true. People will go off on you when there is a barrier, like phones, internet etc. But when you are there in person, the whole scenario changes. Now some are just stupid, and will take you on, like Road rage incidents. I had a nut jump out on me not to long ago over me pulling over calmly with a turn signal to let him go around. This guy wanted to fight because he thought I was mad over his tailgating me. I tried to pull out and he spit at me, big mistake. Guess what? I was chewing Redman and needed to spit, Hiroshima for him.

[Crowdog]

To me, everyone anymore is an instant expert. And no matter how long you've been shooting a bow, how many animals you've killed or seen killed, or how many shoots you've won, someone has killed more, won more, and shot longer. And their equipment is the right equipment, and yours won't fly right, shoot straight, or penetrate enough.
Like I've told Papa bull, it gets old, real old, quick. Seeing guys saying you ain't trad cause of your equipment, the clothes you wear, or how you hunt. Look at all articles in TBM now, everyone talks about the spirtual meaning of shooting a recurve or a longbow, how it brings them closer to nature, and how they pray over the animals they've killed, missed, or just seen. And in every article, they put down the compound shooting guys, the light arrow shooting guys, or the metal risered shooters. It's got so bad here in NM and Colorado that the trad shooters have written letters to the DOW offices wanting longer seasons with equipment limitations, cause they feel that because of their equipment, they don't have enough time to kill animals and they can't compete with the compound shooters.
I give up.

[ahshoot]

It's common for the anonymity of the internet to allow people to not keep their defects of character in check. If you are secure in your beliefs then why care? Let people do, write, and say what they will. You don't need to read, respond, or ruminate over it. Find those you share something with and focus on that. This thread has become a way for people to have an attitude about the attitudes of others.

[Sam Dunham]

Crowdog, The definition for expert= A drip under pressure.

[Crowdog]

I quit outfitting years ago cause we started having first time hunters telling us how to hunt and call elk!!
I dunno, really don't. It's good to see the numbers of traditional shooters today, but it's sad to see the way that a lot of the "old timers" are treating them. Man, now cause I wear high tech Sitka clothes, and Underarmour, I'm in a whole new class. I'm thinking of having my metal risers dipped in a wood grain finish, and shootin the wooden grained MFX's.
And yessir, I stopped shootin' 3D shoots with the trad shooters, I'll walk and shoot with the compound boys. I think they are actually a better class of guys.
And I thought that shootin' a bow was supposed to be fun?

[WTBrown]

Well said Scott,I am 51 and a newbie(have shot a bow my entire life)1958 Ben Pearson TD LB(I still own)I joined this to learn and get advice.I know nothing about the tech stuff as all I have ever done is pick up what ever arrow I had nock up and shoot.

I shoot split finger damascus glove,instinct,and off the shelf.I had two nice Bear RC that I traded and got Warfed.(Probablly my first mistake)At least my versions. I Warfed a Ben Pearson riser for me (I guess I should call it a "Pearf" and a Black Bear riser with ILF for my son.All was done with the advice and info from folks on this site.

I have been and will continue to be at the mercy of these fine folks as long as I keep asking for advice.I work at a Children's Home and my Wife is disable so I can't afford to buy alot of differents arrows,strings etc.I have stated many times openly on this forum that I am ignorant to the tech. stuff .I know and expect to make mistakes in purchasing things like arrows,broadheads and strings and will learn from these mistakes.I can't afford it but I expect it

I got back into Archery and Bowhunting because I can not river fish (Fly or Spin cast) like I used to because of phsyical henderences.I want to enjoy my return to this sport but at the moment I am becoming frustrated.

There are responses to comments that are just plain BS.Everybody in this country has the right to their opinions and their reasons for those opinions"It's a God given right"An example would be: Ted Nugent,yes he avoided the war by doing bizare things,and yes his Rock and Roll life style was pretty bizare also.But to say that "Ted Nugent is a disservice to Archery"Ted probablly out shoots most.

These kind of comments about a man who at 18 made made a choice that was not very patriotic sounds like it comes from a person that is judgemental and obviously feels like he has made all the right choices in life (Has a good job,a Wife and Family helps out the Needy,etc.) ain't nobody perfect in this world except "Jesus Christ".

Ted may have done and still does alot wrong in many people's eyes.I watch a lot of his shows on Versus channel and the work he does with Veterans and Children are wonderful.I may have this opinion because I work at a Children's Home and two of my sons are Vets,one recently returning from Iraq.I really don't care what Ted has done in past."Heck I love Country Music"Isn't it a good thing that God forgives us for our past"? I am tired of the Activists that always feel the need to stir things up. But it is your right is predominant in American 2cents:

[Desert Archer]

Mr Brown,

I'm very sorry to see you are so disappointed and offended by the help offered here on TT. You don't seem to understand that general answers are sometimes all you can expect from a computer screen. We can't see you shoot or examine your equipment so we sometimes can't say for sure.

There is also the "individual" factor that many of us know from experience means there is no one absolute answer to a given question. An arrow spine that shoots like the proverbial dart for one guy may not shoot well for another with the same bow and draw length because their release differs so much. Can't judge or predict that stuff over a computer.

Just about every one here with some experience gained that experience by the "trial and error" you are complaining about. That's archery.

Dave

[WTBrown]

My apology to all for my comments.It was not meant to sound that I was complaining about help given.

[RadioFlyer]

Part of the problem with the attitude revolves around the fact that there never was any orthodoxy developed for "Traditional Archery" but was in fact a subtle movement of thought that was organic.

Americans are particular about orthodoxy and when the "Trad" movement went from a fad of romanticism to a large commercial success, the excesses of "fundamentalism" came into play. The desire for a set of self-imposed "fundamentalism" did rise to the top and the move to desired fundamentalism is in the process of producing an orthodoxy without a set of "rules" written down. The scramble for an orthodoxy in "Trad" could make for a great read as a thesis.

I think the resistance to FITA or olympic style shooting and equipment is a reflection of the primitivism and romanticism involved.

I was a young archer at the time Mr. Allen came out with his bow, in fact my first compound bow was an Allen then a Jennings, olympic archery was well on its way with form and sights and attachments intrenched or in development when the compound hit the market...

http://www.archeryhistory.com/recurves/pics/shakespeare1.jpg

From the Archery History site the above add is a good indication of where development was at the time...

Arrow rests
Clickers
Stabilizers

Even release aids were in development!

So the act of bringing up historical fact makes the quasi-fundamentalist, romantic, and primitivist angry not because they do not understand the facts but because we may be intruding in on the development of the orthodoxy.

Now add the problems with the anonymity of the internet and we have a mix for complete loss of civility.

Possibly the definition and identification of sub groups could help with the romantics who have a bent for fundamentalism.

Traditional archery could be sub divided into several sub groups based on desire or need for orthodoxy.

Using all simple limb design and a single string without wheels as a base...

Target archery - such as FITA, Olympic archery. Almost all attachments OK.

Simulated hunting - 3d and Field. Some attachments OK.

Romantic era "trad" (focused on recreation and hunting) - Modern recurve and longbow. Limited attachments OK.

Historical (focused on historical forms) - Modern craftsmen and users using and preserving historical methods and manufacture. If the Mongols or Welshmen did not use it, no thanks.

Primitive (focused on older historical to stone age) - Modern craftsmen and users reverting to the most primitive of equipment. If Native Americans pre-Mayflower or Ötzi the ice man did not have it, no thanks.

Take all this with the fun it was intended, although tung in cheek all humor has to some fact in it to be funny.

[Steve Jo]

I think the whole class thing in archery is deleterious

Equipment choice is a poor barometer of the person behind it.

The trend as I've seen it is folks wanting an identity through their quipment.

A bow is just a tool, a means to an end (unintentional pun), shoot what makes you the happiest.

[George Tsoukalas]

CarolinaBob, I know what you mean. When I read threads stating instinctive archery doesn't exist (here and on other sites) particularly when I've been using that method on and off for 48 years, it makes me thankful that there will always be someone around to straighten me out. LOL. There are "specks" in everyone's eyes including mine. I guess the older I get the more I realize that. I am working on removing those specks. My Master told me I should.:) Jawge

[Dave Holquist]

I seldom post on any of the trad archery sites that I visit or am a member of. First of all, in case you hadn't noticed, the trad police are everywhere (I guess I'm just too old and cranky to want to deal with them). Then, there is the seemingly endless supply of highly opinionated keyboard experts (I guess I'm just too old and cranky to want to deal with them). But I guess I like this site because I get the feeling that I'm in good company (other old and cranky guys). Just kidding but, then again, I'm not. The prevailing non-judgemental attitude on this site is definitely a breath of fresh air!

Back to lurking mode now...heh heh heh

[Rhue]

The very problem is misunderstanding : miswriting, misinterpretation. Indeed, Ego is not a good advicer.

Struggle for life is still existing through keyboard.

[codger]

I frequent a lot of motorcycle user groups websites depending on what type of bike I own at the time and it seems to run rampant there things can get pretty rotten. I think since its a viurtual situation people can be nasty evil individuals online who would never have the Huevos to say such a thing to your face because there is no accountability. I'm new to the archery sites in fact this is the only one im involved in people here seem to be really nice and very helpful. I quit archery for about ten years due to motorcycling injury and recently started shooting again in hopes of getting back into traditional 3 d shoots in 09.