How Many of you are illegal?

[CarolinaBob]

Recently a friend of mine told me that he had a visit from the police, Informing him that he was to stop shooting in his yard as it was illegal to discharge a deadly weapon within the township. Now my friend has a one acre lot, also he recently came back from the Olympic trials so it isn't like he was slinging arrows all over. So how many of you are illegal? I know I am and I guess that I will be going to court as this is the last straw is this dumb- down campaign of the liberal agenda. No left turn arrows on a green are bad but this is worst. So I suggest that you covertly check your local laws.
If that doesn't PO you get this. When questioned as how it is illegal to shoot on private property but OK for Archery in the School program within the township. The answer was they are properly supervised!!!!!!!!!!!

[Viper]

Bob -

In NY State it's illegal to discharge a weapon in a residential area. I think the law states "within 500 feet of a dwelling" or something like that. Depending on where you live and the precautions you've taken for safety, most of the local constabulary are more than willing to look the other way. Once a neighbor (or anyone) makes a complaint, they have no choice to step in.

Sorry Bob, The reasons are perfectly valid, especially the properly supervised part. Reality is, it's pretty tough an archer at full draw to see someone off to the side of his shooting lane. Even if your friend is "incapable of slinging arrows all over", shit happens. The more "concentrated" a shooter is, the less his situational awareness.

I'd love to shoot in my back yard, but 1. I won't take the chance and 2. yeah, it's against the law where I live.

Viper out.

[vermonster13]

How many are stupid enough to post for all to see that they are breaking the law? Not the best thread title I've seen. No offense Bob but we don't need to provide anymore ammo for anti's than they make-up themselves.

[Martin Farrent]

Germany has very strict gun laws, but doesn't class any vertical bow as a weapon. It's considered sporting equipment, and the only requirement is that you use it in a safe way. There are no specific restrictions.

A crossbow, on the other hand, is considered the equivalent of a firearm... as is an air rifle. You have to be 18 to possess one and must take specified precautions when shooting it on your own land.

A 30# crossbow or a slow air rifle are subject to far more restrictions than a 300 fps compound bow.

Incidentally: A racing bicycle is, by the same token, not a vehicle. It's sporting equipment. You can ride without lights at night, and the police can stop you, but they can't fine you. You can ride any other bike without functioning lights in broad daylight, and the police can fine you on the spot...

Best,

Martin

[SteveGabriel]

Hi Bob,
The regulation has nothing to do with a "liberal agenda". It has more to do with the a**hole factor.
The guy that takes his 300 fps, 70 lb compound bow and simply puts a target on his slat fence made of 1/2" thick pine 1x2's. Or the "hunter" who leaves a headless deer carcass in the woods behind someones house, to be found by the homeowners kid while walking the dog. That happened last year
about 5 miles from where I live and there's no hunting permitted in the township.
Then there's the guy that went to an Archery/Firearms shop that I patronize. The owner has a small indoor archery range. Last year someone asked if he could use the range, paid his fee and proceeded to shoot at an NFAA 300 round blue target with his .22 pistol. Fortunately no one was hurt.
Like the comedian Ron White says "You can't fix stupid". These laws are passed because of the actions of a few stupid people.

[CarolinaBob]

Gee Vermonter sorry that I am stupid, but personally I don't a xxxx what the antis think. If they don't have ammo they make it up. Oh yeah it is also illegal in SC to shoot a weapon gun/bow in the state forests other than at an approved firing range.

[vermonster13]

I'm sorry about that too. It is hard enough fighting to keep what we have with out doing flagrant stuff to make it more difficult. If you disagree with your town's ordinance than go to a meeting and work on getting it changed. Starting a running list of who breaks the law in their town just doesn't seem like a good idea. It's not the anti's but the non-hunters who support us now that we don't need to turn into opposition because hunters are just outlaws anyways and I'm worried about my child/pet/property. Show them why it's safe to do it properly and then change the ordinance.

[rusty craine]

I guess I wish I could shoot in the back yard and I am glade my neighbor's tatooed pierced wild assed son can't :)

rusty

[scotty]

...

[ahshoot]

Some political talk (e.g. liberal agenda) got out of hand here in the past. It has since been the policy to leave that outside the forums. As others have pointed out, the bad behavior of others can cause strict rules to come into being that hurt the more responsible. Also, people fear what they don't understand, especially if it has a pointy end on it. I'll leave you with a question, are you glad that you live in a society with some rules that govern weapons use?

[ahshoot]

I'll state something that I've said before. Most people are moderate in their views and do not take the rabid anti-hunters seriously. I'm just not that worried about it. Should I be?

Interesting link.

http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~powlesla/personal/hunting/text/kellert.txt

[scotty]

...

[ahshoot]

Listen...I wasn't trying to start a sh#tstorm. I'm just referring to this.

http://www.tradtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5649

Which was enacted over a year ago.

As to the rest. Can a trained driver in a Ferrari safely exceed the speed limit? Yes. Does that mean that speed limits are not a good idea? No. Laws unnecessary for you are necessary to restrain the behavior of those less responsible. Should target practice be allowed in schoolyards? No. Should it be allowed in safer areas? Yes. Where do you draw the line on that gradient?

[scotty]

...

[ahshoot]

ok man, I'll get of my high horse and think about my new quinn :)

[Ronin]

Bob, I shot my bow up my driveway at a target in my garage for about two years before a police officer stopped by my house and told me to stop shooting because it was illegal to shoot a bow within the city limits. I always thought I was on the edge of the city limits. I had had police pass my house for two years without one stopping to talk to me. Most just waved and kept driving. I can only guess that someone complained to them or it was a new hot, shot police that was trying to over regulate his beat. Anyway, because I could not shot at the 20 or so yards in my driveway, my shooting has suffered. Oh, and by the way I checked my local ordinaces and it is also illegal to own a chicken as a pet or to tell someone's fortune! Progress is a wonderful thing.

Marv

[ahshoot]

Marv,

Here's the plan. Get a little toy bow with suction cups (should be legal?), a chicken, and a crystal ball and get out in the driveway. Maybe not, you might end up with life (3 strikes). :)

Seth

[Desert Archer]

there have been plenty of strict rules for a very long time.
bad behavior by a few should be punished according to the existing laws , rather than seen as an excuse to invent any new blanket laws that take freedom away from everyone.

i dont know of any better place to live than america,and im very glad i can live here, but we have too many weapons laws, we cant enforce them on the criminals to any useful degree, and they dont make the country any safer for responsible citizens, at this point in time they make it less safe in my opinion.


scotty, for what it's worth I completely agaree with you.

Dave

[scotty]

...

[ahshoot]

I live in a city with half a million people and a high crime rate. That probably influences my perspective on things. Where I used to live, a more rural area, I was closer to you guys in this.

[brad]

guess I am illegal once in a while.

But safely illegal, if I don't draw with my hand pointed to the sky, and very discreet. Railroad right of way, nothing for hundred of yards in front except an abandoned railroad line and a swamp. And I do walk it before shooting to make certain there aren't any homeless people camped out, which is too often the case.

With limited means of transportation, it's often either that or not shoot at all.

[ahshoot]

I must confess. I shoot in the city limits but in my ONE BEDROOM APARTMENT :)

I have a block target set up in my bedroom and by shooting through the living room and hallway I can get 12 yards. Thank goodness I live alone and the apartment is brick. Haven't missed yet (crossing fingers).

[George D. Stout]

We shoot-in our deer rifles in the borough where I recently lived. The borough extends into the mountain where it is also legal to hunt. Manns Choice, population 251 when everyone is home. I live in the Manns Choice suburbs now 8^).

[Grizzly]

I live in a small village inside a 100,000 pop city. A few years ago, someone a couple of blocks away had an arrow narrowly miss him while he was on his garden tractor. He was at the next meeting and the passed a no lawn darts, golf, etc but on city property. I was also asked to stop shooting. When they came marching up to our door at election time, I told them I didn't think I could vote for someone who took away my favorite hobby. Within a month I was good to go again with the warning that if anything dangerous happened I could expect a fine and that if anyone complained it would end. Last year some grandmother thought her grandkids might be at risk, so all bets are off again. Yuck, does aggrevate ya when I know they are in more danger from any number of things than from me.

['46]

I've been shooting in the backyard forever. One day my next door neighbor (a bowhunter) came over while I was shooting, he watched awhile and commented "I sure wish I could shoot in the back yard, but being Chief of Police here in town I better not since it's illegal". I'm still shooting and he's still wishing :)

[warbow]

Don't think of the back yard ranges being "illegal" think of them as being "undocumented." Surely many of these localities have exceptions for "licensed" public and private ranges.

That being said, I'm for the nuanced view that safe shooting should be encouraged and sometimes has to be regulated. For areas where backyard shooting is legal, unless you have a hill behind your house you better darn well be using your house as a backstop behind your target. If you aren't confident enough to do that then you are shooting from too far back.

[ahshoot]

Rules aren't really needed so much for responsible and skilled people, like the people on this board. They are need to protect us from the village idiot(s) though :)

Seth

[Viper]

ah, warbow et al -

I recounted this story before, still serves to illustrate a point"

"There was a gentleman in my town who used to practice for bowhunting season by shooting into his garage. The walls of the garage provided an adequate backstop and his driveway was fenced in, so he had a safe line of fire. While “discharging a weapon” was frowned upon around here (ie illegal), the local Police gave him a courtesy as he had taken adequate precautions. One season, he planned on using a tree stand and decided he needed to get some practice shooting downhill. Unfortunately, the route he chose was to shoot from the roof of his house into his garage. Needless to say, after a phone call to the Police Department from a neighbor about “some nut” on the roof with a bow and arrow, his at-home shooting career was unceremoniously ended."

Careful what you ask for ...

Viper out.

[warbow]

Viper, I had meant to edit my post to add that shooting towards a dwelling is probably a bad idea even if it is yours. You don't want people, pets or service people to be at risk through windows, from coming out the back door or the back fence. I had really meant it (but thought it out poorly) as a metaphor for not over estimating ones shooting ability by suggesting you put some thing inanimate that you value behind your target to make you think twice about whether you really think you are an infallible shot. Perhaps a favorite car?

BTW, Viper, we are only slightly apart on this issue. Hunting Bows are designed specifically to be long range lethal weapons so I don't believe that shooting should be taken lightly. I'm not sure if backyard ranges should be banned outright, though, since some people have the space and/or topography for a safe range and it is possible to make a safe outdoor 20m louvered range like the one in LA (I forget the name--it is off Pico, I think). And some people just want to practice with a light weight target bow with lower range (a mere 160 yards or so :) ) and penetration than 320 fps compound.

[Viper]

Warbow -

Completely agree!!!

The points I tried to make were, in the above case, the guy, pretty much had it made and then he crossed (or climbed over) the invisible line and drew attention to himself.

I WISH I had enough land to set up a safe outdoor range in my "backyard" and am certainly a little envious of the guys with acres of land who can do just that. Maybe we should have defined "backyard" first.

BTW - I did send an arrow through the back door of my parents house when I was a kid - ONCE!!! They weren't happy and for the next month, either was I.

Viper out.

[scotty]

at about 13, i shot a bed[ inside the house, of course] with a shotgun!!!
my parents were real unhappy, i didnt get to shoot anything for a long time.
but that doesnt mean it should be illegal to have shotguns in a house, just means i was an idiot.

[ahshoot]

Personally, I treat a bow with the same respect as a firearm.

[warbow]

but that doesnt mean it should be illegal to have shotguns in a house, just means i was an idiot.

...and it isn't illegal to have bows in your backyard. It's the discharging them that seems to be the issue. :)

[warbow]

Personally, I treat a bow with the same respect as a firearm.

I have to say that I don't. They deserve similar respect, though not identical. If I gave my bow the same respect I do a firearm there is no way I'd go to any field archery course or 3d shoot.* Likewise I have no issues with the idea of short range indoor practice in the spare room with my bow. I'd never do that with my 9mm or my .22, ever. Now granted, I shoot a light bow and my spare room has sturdy windowless walls so there is no way an arrow could get out even If I miss something awful.

Bows and firearms both deserve serious respect but they are different even though they are both potentially lethal.

*Though sometimes I wonder if those are tad dangerous. Last 3d I was at was set up with a one target being a shoot from a blind across the main dirt path/road to a target obscured from the view. There were no markers across the road that it was a flight path!!! And you couldn't see the shooters because of the hard-walled blind. I almost walked into the flght path looking for the stake, as did others. I had people spot for me when I shot the target and I pointed it out to organizers but they made no move to rectify the situation. It really was unacceptable, especially since it was very much a family shoot with lots of kids as well as adults. You'd never see something like that at a firearms range (or so I would hope...)

[Sam Dunham]

Check the Law in your area, Laws are written and defined by Lawyers. Example; What is the definition for "Deadly weapon" usually something which can be discharged. Ok, by what means? by use of a propellant or explosive? Most would agree that a Bow could be used as a weapon, but how does the law define it? Most will include Pneumatic rifles and pistols, but not archery equipment. Most Cops will define the reason for his telling you to stop shooting your Bow by saying" it's against the law" and he may really not know. How do I know this? because I'm 22 year veteran and have been corrected in court during my early years of wanting to get the call over so I could go to the next one. Check it out before you give up and quit shooting altogether. I make it a priority to be right, before I act. Sam out

[petew]

Even the best shooter and equipment can have a wild arrow for one of many reasons.
If the backstop has anything beyond it that is within arrow range , we have to find a better place.

Pete

[Larry Hatfield]

wow, i never think of how restricted most people are when it comes to shooting! i can set up a 100 yd. target at the edge of my back yard and all thats behind the target for a full 1/2 mile is one of my hay fields. guess when i wonder why nobody shoots past 20 yards anymore that may be the answer!
larry

[bcoulter]

Your right Larry, many aren't as lucky as we are. For years I lived in a subdivision and could only shoot 25 yards max.

Now I have 3 acres. I too can set up a 100 yard target and only worry about hitting soy beans or corn if I miss, LOL.

Works great for golf balls too up to 175 yards.

nice.

[Sam Dunham]

I'm glad I live in an area where I still have some freedom to shoot my Bows and guns. I used to take my 30-06 in my old pick-up to school in the hooks in my back window, nobody said a word and there was nobody bothering it, because nobody wanted to. It was common place. Just my hunting rifle, which every other kid had. Urban settings and culture are much different than rural. These copy cat idiots with criminal intent have destroyed much of our freedoms by using some of the common place tools we enjoy ourselves with and useing them to commit crimes. There are over 2000 gunlaws on the books and we still have those who want more. I wish we could just enforce the ones we already have. How does this relate, well it all runs together, Anti this, anti that, and it can all be broken down to giving up more of our rights for the sake of safety or whatever someone uses to try and rob you of a freedom, but as Jim Zumbo found out. We shouldn't give up anything. Including shooting your Bow in your yard. How many incidents of errant arrows have you to report? If it's not a problem, don't make one. Sam out

[WTBrown]

Bill, glad you mentioned golf balls.Any body been hit by a wild golf ball ?There have been deaths,car accidents,etc. Most every golf course runs along a road way.Now, out of a 100 golfers on the course there are maybe 40% that one does not have to worry about a "wild" dangerous projectile. I am in the 60% that at any given time my golf ball can become a dangerous projectile.Thats why I don't golf very much,I don't practice golf in my backyard, but I do sling a few arrows in my backyard.There are no restrictions for golf.Why? Accidents can and will happen in the most bizare ways.Sometimes in "Devine" ways.Ways we have no control over.We have to do what we tell our kids,"Practice safe Sex".We just need to practice "Safe shooting".

[ahshoot]

Still..would rather be hit by a golf ball than an arrow anyday :)

[bcoulter]

Still..would rather be hit by a golf ball than an arrow anyday :)


probably so,just don't ask my wife.......:mistake:

suffice it to say I don't hit golf balls towards the house anymore when she's outside.

[WTBrown]

Yeh,an arrow to your temple would most likely kill you.But,a golf ball, it could kill you but then it could just make you stupid for the rest of your life!

[Desert Archer]

Yeh,an arrow to your temple would most likely kill you.But,a golf ball, it could kill you but then it could just make you stupid for the rest of your life!

Or just pissed off at golfers! (smiley face goes here)

Dave

[desertrat]

probably so,just don't ask my wife.......:mistake:

suffice it to say I don't hit golf balls towards the house anymore when she's outside.

:eek:

[Sam Dunham]

This "golf ball thing" is funny to me because a Golf course actually splits the road on both sides here on Holiday Island,(look at it on Google sat-pics. I actually have to fill out private property Traffic accident reports on Golf ball vs. car incidents, although very seldom. Some houses also in the area, and busts a few windows. Walkers are on the Cart tracks in off hours for exercise, but so far no injuries to people. Have seen softballs take out a few windshields at the game, but also seen them take direct hits, and bounce off. Just think of how deadly a Modern wrist rocket(slingshot) with 50 cal. muzzleloader balls would be close up.

[WTBrown]

"ouch"

[JackAldridge]

Well....there's always my well-meaning neighbor who was going to 'show me how to shoot a bow' when I first started shooting. He launched one over his house, and my house, and stuck it in the neighbors front porch behind my house as he drew back toward the clouds and accidently fired one off. Then there was the other 'brain' who nailed his neighbors cat because it 'walked into his yard'! The archery shops put up with cops for about 2 weeks trying to identify the arrow! Or the news story just last night about the pelican with an arrow in its bill! Personally with jerks like that running around I'd just as soon not have them shooting up my neighborhood. We have laws because not every mother's son was born with a full deck of cards! What ever happened to common sense?

[ahshoot]

I think the pelican shooter has posted on this thread :)

[stantond]

Where I live, *if* I were to shoot in the backyard it's not entirely clear from the ordinances archery is disallowed. Shotgun hunting is allowed inside city limits during season. Discharging firearms is not allowed (an exception is made for shotguns during season). The ordinance has a section about projectiles which have caused damage or harm.

However, *if* I were to shoot in the backyard it would be in a very accommodating way towards neighbors, pets, even the neighborhood rabbits and other critters. While it's not clearly disallowed regarding the ordinances, one complaint to the police would be unwanted and would make the second expensive and unpleasant. Recognizing consequences and taking responsibility for your actions goes a long way.



Stan

[WTBrown]

We are beginning to plan for an archery range at the childrens home I work at.In a planning meeting with Home's President this morning the sublect of " where would the safest place for a range be".Was the lead off question.We have several places on our campus where a 25-30' earthing bank is present.In any situation this would be an ideal location. With regard to what is safe,to me it is mostly depended upon supervison. Outdoor ranges in remote areas are thought of as safe and the place to shoot.They are no more safer than your back yard if an accident or intentional arrow is loosened to the sky.I told my boss that the area behind our soccer field would be ideal(thirty foot bank as a back stop)no houses close by.But, what is "close by" in relation to out door ranges and shoots.Accidents can and will happen and the occasional intentional bad decision will occur,no matter what the weapon,no matter what the age.Residential Childcare is under so much scrutiny that the thought putting bows and arrows in the hands of kids in care s just crazy tomost people.Well I feel the kids in my care need to have the opportunity to experience archery as any kid. I simpily told my boss that a range behind the soccer field would be safe as safe as any where if the supervision is there.If the supervision is not there the Housing development 1000yds in one directiion and a gravel quarry in the other directiion is not safe.This goes for any out door range.Having a place called "The Range" (public place where you drive to and pay for)does not make things safe."ACCIDENTS,BAD DECISIONS AND POOR SUPERVISION" MAKE FOR UNSAFE CONDITIOINS.As far legal.One should try to be legal in all cases. The law makers made it illegal to have open prayer in school.How many follow this law I certainly don't.

[WTBrown]

We are beginning to plan for an archery range at the childrens home I work at.In a planning meeting with Home's President this morning the sublect of " where would the safest place for a range be".Was the lead off question.We have several places on our campus where a 25-30' earthing bank is present.In any situation this would be an ideal location. With regard to what is safe,to me it is mostly depended upon supervison. Outdoor ranges in remote areas are thought of as safe and the place to shoot.They are no more safer than your back yard if an accident or intentional arrow is loosened to the sky.I told my boss that the area behind our soccer field would be ideal(thirty foot bank as a back stop)no houses close by.But, what is "close by" in relation to out door ranges and shoots.Accidents can and will happen and the occasional intentional bad decision will occur,no matter what the weapon,no matter what the age.Residential Childcare is under so much scrutiny that the thought putting bows and arrows in the hands of kids in care s just crazy tomost people.Well I feel the kids in my care need to have the opportunity to experience archery as any kid. I simpily told my boss that a range behind the soccer field would be safe as safe as any where if the supervision is there.If the supervision is not there the Housing development 1000yds in one directiion and a gravel quarry in the other directiion is not safe.This goes for any out door range.Having a place called "The Range" (public place where you drive to and pay for)does not make things safe."ACCIDENTS,BAD DECISIONS AND POOR SUPERVISION" MAKE FOR UNSAFE CONDITIOINS.As far legal.One should try to be legal in all cases. The law makers made it illegal to have open prayer in school.How many follow this law I certainly don't.

[Sam Dunham]

I pray when I want to, where I want to, and how I want to, as many times as I want to, But I probably need to pray more.

[WTBrown]

Amen! to that.There is no limit to the time we need to spend in conversation with our Heavenly Father.