Renewing your mind

[Cato]

While on vacation, I read a book by Andy Stanley (son of Charles Stanley FBC of Atlanta). Andy is a great communicator, and pastors a church he started about 5 or 6 yrs ago which now is running over 5,000 a week in attendance.

In the book he makes an interesting contention. Romans 12: 1,2 says we are to "present our bodies as a living and holy sacrifice"....and "not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind ."

His contention is that God's main goal for us is to conform us to the image of Christ, and that this is a process, not an event. He goes on to assert that one essential element in the process is the "renewing of our mind", ie, the constant reading and meditating on the Word of God.

He says, the world is in our face daily, and in a subtle way, indoctrinating us into its view of life. In order for us to see life from God's perspective, we must have His viewpoint. We can only obtain this by an ongoing ingestion of His Word. And that takes time. But over time, we eventually examine all of life's issues through principles given by God.

Any thoughts?

[Cueball]

I need to be renewing my mind more lately.

...........................................Roby... .................................................

[raindog]

I certainly feel we need to withdraw from 'the world in our face daily' as much as possible, and focus inwards rather than superficially. The world drives me crazy ... sometimes reading the bible is part of this turning away for me, sometimes not.

:)

[BLACK WOLF]

I'm with you on that guys!!!

We need to exercise our minds just as an athlete exercises his body in order to compete and I don't do it as much as I should.

Everyday and about every minute we are in a competition or battle and in order for us to win we must train and that training is based on getting into the Bible through personal Bible study, Bible study groups, going to church, fellowship and applying what we have learned within our lives to name a few.

We must apply God's teaching if we want to exercise it. Just going to church and sitting in the congrigation listening to the sermon isn't going to cut it unless you use it and apply it. It would be simular to going to a gym and watching a fitness trainer work others out without you actually working out. We are not going to become mentally and/or spiritually fit if we don't work ourselves out as God wants us to.

Another analogy would be an out of shape guy wanting to run a marathon and not preparing himself for it. The person, who prepares himself correctly is the one that will complete it and receive the prize.

Ray ;)

[BLACK WOLF]

cambow,

Do you believe that Christians still have to deal with their sinful nature on a day to day basis?

Do we have to keep our thoughts in check?

Do you believe that God wants us to continue to do something after we have been saved?

Does it take any effort on our part to try and avoid sin?

If we don't actively pursue God we can get caught up in worldly ways even after we have been saved. God wants us to actively maintain a close relationship with Him and in order to do that we need to spend time in the Word, pray and have fellowship with other Christians, which helps us to continuely renew our minds on a daily basis.

God knows how tempting and distracting the world can be and that is why he wants us to continue renewing our minds and submitting our bodies to Him on a daily basis.

1 Corinthians 9:24 "Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize."

1 Corinthians 9:27 "No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize."

Philippians 3:14 "I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus."

Life is a continueing struggle here on earth and God has made His spirit available to us, so that we can learn how to make choices and live as God had intended.

Just because we have been saved, doesn't mean we don't have to continually renew our minds and beat our bodies into submition to God's authority.

I know personally, I have struggles everyday...some days I have more and others less.

Ray ;)

[BLACK WOLF]

cambow,

Awesome responses and I agree with most of everything you shared, but I still disagree with just a couple of things.

You said - "No, because with the mind, the Christian serves the law of God, Romans 7:25, Our minds belong to Christ because the have been renewed by Him."

You said - "The fact that a Christian is saved, is the very reason he does not need to renew his mind, or heart on a daily basis."

So when you commit a sin didn't you first think about it before commiting it?

How can our minds be completely under the control of God if our minds think about sinning?

If your mind right now completely belongs to God as you are explaining it, than it is God causing you to think about commiting sin, which contridicts God's very nature.

The renewing of one's mind is a continueing process that is a battle between good and evil. By asking ourselves WWJD and than following through with it, is part of the renewing process that your mind needs to go through on a daily basis.

Our minds need to be exercised just as our bodies do in order to be fit because it is being affected by few things...our flesh and blood bodies, Satan and God's spirit.

God has given us an opportunity to be forgiven and we are responsible for making that choice and any other choice we make than after. It's called accountability, which we are all still held to to some degree or another....Christian or not, while we are still here in this world.

Our brain, which is part of the body, helps create our thoughts and is still affected by our sinful nature, still needs to be beaten into submission.

God will completely own us one day physically, emotionally and mentally as you are trying to explain, but until than it is a battle based on time. It will take training and submition of our bodies, which includes our brain, to become the warriors that God desires us to be.

Ray ;)

[Cato]

In Romans 6:13, it says "and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves (mind, body, emotion, will, is my assumption) to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

How can we present anything, if we do not think. And why would there be any tension here, and dilimea, if we did not have two options, which require a decision in the mind? In fact, sin begins in the mind, doesn't it? Well, it begins in a fallen nature, but is conceived in the mind?

Romans 8:6 says, "for the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace".. the presumption again seems that we have two choices even as saved children.

It seems illogical, and inconsistent with life, that we do not have a mind capable of being renewed to the things of God, or degerated by the things of the flesh. If not, there would be no such thing as a backslider.

In fact, if it were not essential to renew our minds with the Word, why read the Bible anyway?

Just some quick thoughts. I really enjoy the discussion, when based on Scripture.

Cato

[Esquire]

Cato,

I have been so busy lately, but this is a good and timely subject. The renewing of our minds is truly a process and a vital one for Christians to be engaged in.

The Bible speaks clearly of those who "have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age", and who then fall away.

It (the Bible) speaks of the impossibility of those backsliders being brought again to repentance. Allowing ourselves to experience the (daily, even hourly) renewing of our minds spoken of here is a great guard against becoming like those who fall away.

Perhaps more to the point, it guards against the draining of the life right out of us. Our world is so fast paced and filled with attractive illusions that a Christian can easily fill his or her mind with the spiritual equivalent of junk food and find that transformation on such a diet is harder than running a marathon on candy and coke!

Mike

[Esquire]

Camobow,

Thanks for your input. You have some interesting theories there.

I tend to believe in the simple common sense approach to reading the scripture; ie: that when the bible says "fall away" it means...just that.

Mike

[Esquire]

Camobow,

That's not what I said at all. Please take the time to carefully reread my post. As christians, we are commanded to seek the renewing of our minds.

I am suggesting that obedience to this recipe for transformation has the added benefit of guarding against spiritual deadness.

The lust, the flesh, the eyes, and the pride of life will choke the life (vitality) right out of us, if we are not careful. It's easy to become bitter, legalistic, and jaded. It is hard to remain fresh, graceful, and joyfully engaged with life.

Renewing our minds will help us to escape the traps we set for ourselves, in which we get the idea that we are right and everyone else is wrong, or in which we decide we have a duty to choke the vitality out of others with our rules and misguided theology.

Jesus came that we (all) might have life, and have it more abundantly. Wrapped up in this scripture Cato gave us is this notion of abundance of life!

And when we are wrapped up in this abundance of life on a daily basis, I believe we are far less likely to make the sort of choices that will cause us to become like those believers who, "have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age", and who then fall away."

Mike

[BLACK WOLF]

camobow (Bill?),

I now see where our disagreement is based upon. It's based on our disagreement concerning "freewill" as it has been in the past.

No disrespect intended towards you, but I don't see any need to rehash what has been discussed before unless an outsider wants to learn more.

Anyone?

Ray ;)

[BLACK WOLF]

Bill,

I agree...Gods Truth about His Sovereign Grace cannot be argued, or debated by men, for such understanding can only be had by the indwelling of The Holy Spirit.

In other words, no one man, can convince another man of Gods total Sovereignty over their salvation, but we can share our life, life tranforming experiences and the knowledge revealed to us so that it may lead another man to make the choice laid before them by the very being, who created life.

Just because God gave us a choice and expects us to make one, doesn't disqualify His sovereignty.

Ray ;)

[BLACK WOLF]

Bill,

I didn't miss your point. I just disagree with it as we have discussed over the years.

Ray ;)