Cabelas SST Carbons!

[Wally Holmes]

I've never been really satisfied with any carbon arrows I've tried till now---I've been shooting the Cabelas SST carbons lately and am very impressed! These are the little skinny ones with outserts. They weigh about 520 grains with a 200 grain point on them. Out of my 51 lb. Iron Mtn. longbow the 220's fly the best.
My good buddy James Wrenn loaned me one to try out --- it was fletched with 4" fletch and even with that short fletch I could shoot the big 160 grain snuffers with perfect arrow flight!
They're $39.99 from Cabelas and I highly recommend them. Just :2cents: :)

Wally

[James Wrenn]

I told you so Wally. :) I got my other dozen today but I think they sent the wrong nocs.They fit the 230s fine but are real loose on the 220s.Did yours come with the green ones and were they loose?

[Torsten]

How funny it is that there are so many manufacturers of carbon arrows and each type has its determined 'lovers'.

I think we must admit that since the shooting styles and habits are that much individual, that we also need this many arrow types. Did not understand this before.

Many users favor their model andclaim it to be much more resitant than others. Also here the opinons differ. My favorite is still CExpress.

[James Wrenn]

Torsten it is that way with everything.Every person winds up likeing what works the best for them wether it is bows, arrows or strings. :)

I think ce makes some of the best arrows out there but I shoot lighter weight bows and use them for hunting more than anything else.For that reason the lighter spine and small diameter plus the reasonably weight makes the SSTs the better choice for me.I can shoot skinny arrows that give me 8 to 10gns per lb of bow weight without shooting real heavy points, shooting long arrows or stuffing them with something to get the weight up. :2cents:

[the other DWS]

Thats good info, I'll have to check cabalas out. Never done any business with them.
I like the skinnies and had thought the outsert style were no longer being made. I really like them best for narrow sheved longbows.

I have a bunch of the older ones. lately been shooting AFC/GT 2200's out of the 60# Savannah at 29.5 with an 80gr. tip I get a sub-400gr arrow that flies like a laser beam. I found one of the Cabalas 2200s in the orphan arrow bin and it shoots right into the same group as the others.
I even have a set of 1880s with glue in target tips, but they are more than a wee bit underspined for #55-60 range bows

[Desert Archer]

I tried some of these back when I first returned to archery, in fact they were my very first carbon arrows (shot Microflite before that - LOL). My objection to the SSTs is the outserts, which make pulling arrows from most of the bales I shoot into very difficult. How do you guys who like them deal with that?

Dave

[Mark]

James Wrenn


You have a PM.

[the other DWS]

DA, I have heard that some clubs won't let you use outserts on their foam critters--pulling them out pulls out the edges of the foam. They do take a little more effort but not much on the bag type targets. For me the main trick is to get a good clean joint between outsert and shaft. it there is any glue showing it really can snag in the targets. I also give em a twist as I pull them out

Also some brands have a lower sleeker angle on the back edge of their outserts than others. Years ago I actually carefully chucked some in a drill and spun them against a fine file then 400 wd paper to reduce the angle on some. then hit'em with some AL-black solution form the gun shop.

Another thing is that glue on target points wiht snap-off central weight shafts are/were available that are much lower profile than the outserts for screw in heads. My set of 2200s has eight half with the target tips and six with outserts for hunting heads. My 1880s are all target tips :shooting:

[James Wrenn]

Mark I think I answered your pm but I am not sure. :) Anyway the 220s spine 62lbs (same as 2016 xx75s)and the 230s are 75lbs.This was checked on my homemade tester that checks out with known aluminums.

As far as the outserts go they are tapered pretty good so the only real issue with targets is pulling them out because they go in so deep and are harder to grab hold of that a fat shaft.

On my hunting arrows I made an insert to glue my broadhead on and don't use the outserts.I only use them for killing and they come out the otherside so pulling them is not an issue. :)

[Desert Archer]

t o dws,

If you know of a source for those glue in target points I would appreciate it. Can't find anything like that in Cabala's catalog (web site). If I could find some I would put the 9 or 10 of those things I have back to work for a bit.

Dave

[swampy]

I found outserts to be trouble with targets ,bags in particular.

I don,t dought that some clubs would rather thye not be used on their targets.I never tried them myself because of all the trouble my nieghbor had with his gettin them out of the targets and because one of his outserts was stuck in one of my targets causeing trouble with my arrows.

It,s great if they work for ya I know those old AFC arrows where quite the set up.just a pain to pull is all.

[Wally Holmes]

So far have had no problems with pulling them out of my 3D targets....They do penetrate pretty good so the easiest way to pull them out is with two hands...I haven't noticed where they tear up my 3D targets any more than a 'normal' arrow but I need to shoot them a few hundred more times to see what the long term effect will be on my targets....

[Pinelander]

I used the AFC outserted shafts a long time ago. Most clubs even had signs at their shoots that stated "No Outsert Arrows Allowed"... the dreaded Mackenzie target killers.

$39.99 for SST's? Their website lists them at $59.99

So, it sounds like the 220's shoot well out of 50# with heavy up-front, but what about normal 125-145 gr. up front? Guess I'd have to shoot a longer shaft, huh?

40-43# @ 29 -
would the 220's be way too stiff (need to use really long shaft and/or really heavy up-front)?

I wouldn't mind experimenting with this as well. Don't think I'd shoot them all that much into my new Rhinehart target though.

[the other DWS]

Just called and\ order in for a couple of dozen 220s from cabelas this evening after reading the earlier post. you have to scroll down a bit to get ot the bare shafting at the lower price, the higher price is for fletched shafts. The one Cabela 220 I have shoots right into the same group as my AFC 2200s---my guess is that it is the same old AFC/Gametracker/ Blackhawk shaft now just private labled for Cabelas. I'm using 100 gr target points with a 29.5" bop and they shoot great out of a series of warfers from #55 to #65 and my 60# Savannah

[Pinelander]

Thanks Wayne. Sounds like if I try some of these for my 50# warfer, I'm going to have to leave 'em long or use heavier up-front. What is the bare shaft full-length?

Looks like there's no spine range in these shafts for 40-45#ers. Maybe the 220's will tune at full-length and 20-30% FOC... how are you guys getting 200 grains up-front?

[James Wrenn]

Piney Wally's bow is not as centershot as mine.I can shoot the 220s cut for a 28" arrow with 125 and 145gns out of my 50@27 bows.I can shoot 125 to 160gn points out of most of my 45lb bows.Any thing that I can shoot a 1916 or 2016 out of I can use the 220 in with maybe a point change.I do have to load the front of the 230s out of a 50lb bow.I have to cut them 29' with 200gns on the front. jmo

[Pinelander]

Thanks for that info James. Couple more questions...

What size screw-ins do the outserts take? (comparable aluminum dia. such as 19/64, 21/64, 23/64)

How do you load up-front to 200 grains? The outserts come in different weights?

[James Wrenn]

19/64matches the outsert perfect.I use 200gn screw-in feild points and use 160gn broadheads on a 42gn screw-in adapter.The 200gn feild points are fatter than the shaft but come tapered at the back for easy pulling.You can buy the 175 feild points in 5/16 which is close enough to the outsert to not matter.
I use the ssts for hunting and really don't use them much at 3ds because I have to shoot in the unlimited class with my longbow.I shoot 1916 or 2016s at most shoots.

[James Wrenn]

Piney the outsert is 20/64.I posted above on memory which is not a good thing for me sometimes. :)

[bowshooter74]

Did you guys say the Gluein target point fit these shafts???

would a 230 be good for a 53 lb SA? 29 inch arrow?

[the other DWS]

I was saying that I had some glu-on target points that were made by AFC/Gametracker. they are long discontinued products and pretty hard to find. The ones that I have are on old 2200 Exacta shafts of that brand and I believe that they will fit on the Cabela sst 220.
They were also made for AFCs other sized target shafts. I have them on my 1880 shafts and some that will fit on 2100s as well.
If you find glue-ons it is a simple matter of miking the shaft and making sure they will fit inside and out. Some of the glue-ins I've looked at have too thick a center weight shaft to fit inside the smaller carbons

[bowshooter74]

I have a questioan about how to cut these SSTs, i got mine today and was wondering how you guys cut these to get the finished arrow length you desire. from nock grove to the back of the outsert? Wouldnt this give you a longer arrow to the acual BOP? If i shoot i 29" arrow do i want to keep 29"s of the working part of the shaft to the back of the insert or point?

I was thinking that if i made them to 29" to BOP it would actually increase spine rather than if it was cut to 29" to the Back of the Outsert? i am thinking about this correctly? thanks guys sry for all the questions.

[Pinelander]

Yes, I believe they would be stiffer if cut 29" to BOP (shorter shaft), compared to 29" to back of ousert. But I haven't used them yet either.

My 2200's just arrived today. I see the outsert is 1.25" long. Tight fit with the outsert, but sloppy fit with the nock. With insert on the shaft, they are 32.25" back of outsert and 33.5" BOP. Man, oh man... are these babies SKINNY! No wonder some refer to them as "soda straws". They make my Bemans look like fatties. LOL

[Pinelander]

That's ok James... I've been told I have the recall of squirrel. LOL

I screwed in a PDP-21 (21/64), and was just a @#$%^ hair hanging over the edge.

So how you guys "temporarily" glue these outserts on when tuning and figuring out what length ya want? Seems to made of hard plastic like Delrin. When tuning other carbons using RPS inserts, I always use Bohning Ferrl-Tite hot melt...doesn't look these outserts will take kindly to heat... or will they?

[the other DWS]

Piney I just got home and found mine have arrived today as well. I usually cut mine so that the outsert does not ride up onto the rest. If I understand it right that leaves a marginally longer shaft. If you use the same head and the outsert plus the slightly longer shaft oy should get a very shightly weaker spine

HOWEVER. since carbons seem to be more spinetolerant--for lack of a better term--than aluminum I suspect that the difference is so light as to be unnoticible. FI, MY 2200 AFC/GT Exactas are cut to give me a 29.5 linght BOO (back of outsert) the one CAbales 220 orphan I had aquired that I am already shooting is full length---several inches longer. I fletched it up the same way and am using the same tip as on the shorter ones. I cannot see any difference in flight or group size.
In similar fashion I have one GT carbon and one Bemas ICS out of several dozen of each that are an inch and a half or so shorter than the rest due to a misadventure with a target frame that resulted in short shaft spilts. They also fly into the same group as their full length siblings.
I know that mathematically and scientifically they will not spine out the same due to the different length, and I suppose that their balance is different. Perhaps a more skilled archer than I shooting at longer ranges might find a difference but at my skill level and out to 30 yards or so the slight difference in shafts make no difference in the way they shoot or group.

[James Wrenn]

Piney they are the wrong nocks for your arrows.Cabelas is screwing up and sending the 230 nocks out with the 220 shafts.I just got a dozen and Wally got 2 and both were wrong.Call them and get them to send you the right ones.The 220 nocks will fit tight just like the outserts do.

[James Wrenn]

Piney I go ahead and glue on the outserts.I use a piece of masking tape to hold the nock on and cut from the back of the arrow if I need too.

[the other DWS]

Just opened one of one of my packages same problem here wrong size nocks. I've used a lot of outsert slip on type nocks over the years and I have never had to glue them on--they are that tight a fit. These are WAY too loose--clearly 230's. Infact they fit properly on the 2300 shafts. Whoever is filling orders is pulling them out of the wrong bin. I'm on hold right now with Cabelas customer service to see what they are gonna do about it.
++++++++++++++++
I got a very nice CSR who has said they will ship me a set of replacemnt nocks immediatly. The shafts, nocks, outserts and glue packet are made up at the manufacturers facilty and shipped as a unit to the Cabelas warehourse. They will have to deal with the problem at the mfg level. She will let ALL of their CSRs know about the problem and the fix for it.
+++++++++++++++++++++
Re trimming shafts, the proper nocks are a very tight slip fit that doesn't need glue. you can glue up the point-serts, put a temporary fletch job on a shaft or two using a wrap and shoot'em. the correct size nock will twist off and you can easily strip the fletch/wrap with boiling water, cut, rewrap and refletch, and try again. scarcely takes longer than it takes to describe it

[Pinelander]

W - I've noticed same thing with Bemans I've been using... quite a bit of leeway on spine when it comes to carbons. On the phone w/Cabela's, eh? I'm gonna call 'em right now too. I'm gonna ask for some ORANGE ones. hehe

James - I looked at that nock and said this Sucks! No way am I gonna put that shaft out of line with that sloppy nock. I thought you had said they sent incorrect sized outserts, but that was the first thing I thought... wrong size. I can see how they screwed up... outserts and nocks were in same bag, but the outserts were in their own bag and nocks were just thrown in loose.

Cut off back end of shaft. Duhh... I'm brain dead after a day's worth of PC pampering to the masses.

[Pinelander]

Done deal...

TWENTY-FIVE flourescent orange 2200 nocks on the way. :D

[Pinelander]

Wayne - arrow wraps, EXACTLY! was thinking the same thing. Actually could start fletching far enough away from end of arrow to get two cut-offs before having to re-fletch again. Wouldn't make that much difference (weight distribution on back-end of shaft) to mess things up? Start out at 1.25" from nock... then cut-off another 3/4"". Most of my arrows are fletched 1" from nock.

[James Wrenn]

Wally got his shafts first and called me to ask the best way to get the nocks lined up. :) I did not know he had the wrong nocks and told him to just glue them on straight. :lol: After I got mine I realised what he was talking about.Well at least I have an extra set for my 230s.

[Pinelander]

I'm sorry... but I'm just ROTFLMAO...

"best way to get the nocks lined up"

"just glue them on straight" ...think I'm gonna hyperventilate.:lol:

I kept loooking at the nock, wigglin' it around on the shaft, and saying to myself...
"WTH, they expect to me to use THIS nock on THAT shaft?"

[the other DWS]

Yeah Piney. You see they are special designed to work in conjunction with those rotating blade style broadheads. the shaft and fletching spins but your broad head keeps going straight--somehow this saves energy so the arrow hits with .07589 pounds more knockdown power. The free spinning nock counter balances the head and minimizes the ocillations as the arrow begins to penetrate the target---you did watch the Easton promo video for the Axis safts didn;t you?

[Pinelander]

No, but I did watch the Gobbler Guillotine promo and will be staying at the Holiday Inn Express this weekend. But of course the inn is in Iowa, so that probably doesn't count either. LOL

[Wally Holmes]

Yea Pinelander, when James told me to "just glue them on straight" I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.....But, I know(or thought) that James knows his stuff so I did it....By the way the nocks do work but you have to be real careful lining them up :)

Also, I got me a new Mountain Muffler dynaflight 97 12 strand string the other day-my Iron Mtn longbow had a 12 strand 450+ on it previouosly....I can't shoot the 220's with a 200 grain head with that string-I had to drop down to a 125 grain head. Of course I'm gonna play with the sideplate so I can shoot the broadhead weight I like the best....

Wally

[bowshooter74]

i might have the wrong nocks for my 230s i had to glue the nock on, so that must mean i have a 240 nock? lol there is some slop to it. i better go look again.

[bowshooter74]

guys could you tell me how tight these nocks should be? When i slide a nock on my 230 i can wiggle it just a bit, i dont have my calipers with me to check them there at work. there not nearly as tight as my outserts. Is this a case where there should 0 play in the nock? :help:

[the other DWS]

seems like there should be an adult only punch line here somewhere-----

Anyway in my experience over the years playing with outsert type shafts, the nocks are usually very tight, it takes some efort to twist them around to align them for fletch orientation. I've had'em squeek when I turned them on some shafts. I have never had to glue them on or had any pop off. (I have had insert nocks pop out). Did you check to see if all the nocks are loose on all the shafts? You might conceivebly get one with a combination of min shaft diameter and max nock diameter tolerance. However if they all are only very slightly loose you can probaby get away with glueing them on if you don't want to wait for the correct size. Usually there is enough of the nock fittiing down outside the shaft that nock misalignment would be minimal. However replacing glued on nocks would be a pain and the glues that work best on the slick exterior of the carbon shafts tend to be pretty permenant.
If you got'em from Cabelas I'd give them a call. the SCR person I dealt with the other night was an Amanda. It looks like whoever is doing the pik'n pak at Easton has some QC issues to deal with.

[bowshooter74]

i guess mine are ok, definately have to glue them on, would be nice to have them the way you described though. Ill take some to work tonight and mic em and see what i get.

[Unregistered]

Wow! I called Cabela's Tuesday night about the wrong-sized nocks and they arrived today!... less then 48 hrs after a I made the call. All I wanted was 12 to replace the others. They sent me a bag of 25. The brand name is Arizona Archery HT nocks.

The nocks they re-sent are the correct size, but I wouldn't compare the fit to that of Madonna's hit... never did her believe her anyways. LOL

They will work fine, no slop, and there's no way they will be mis-aligned. But they don't fit real snug either. You can slide it on and then turn the shaft upside down and they fall off.

[James Wrenn]

You have to have room for the glue. :) They will not fit tight enough to stay on by themselves.I hold mine on with a piece of masking tape while shooting during tuning untill I am finished cutting on the shaft. jmo

[Mark]

The only outnocks that fit really tight are some of the ones that Beman makes for their pultruded Hunter and Flash shafts.

[bowshooter74]

my nocks are micing right at .230 .231

my outserts mic at .228 .229

[Mark]

Not to get off the topic of the incorrect nocks that Cabelas is sending out but James sent me six new shafts for testing and here's the results. They were .563/.565/.565/.567/.568/.568 at 28" centers. My shafts from two years ago hovered around .575. That's less than a one pound variation, on average, in shafts over a two year period. I think I can live with that considering they're only $40 a dozen. :D

[bowshooter74]

Great point Mark 40.00 bucks is dirt cheap for these shafts

[Pinelander]

Thanks for the spine info, Mark. :)

Ah-haaa.... we have an in-house spine tester extrordinaire. :D

Maybe you could answer this... what range of aluminums cut at 28" would be comparable to a 32" .600 carbon w/100 gr. nibb?

Pardon my off-topic post, guys.
But I need to go fishing for new shafts for new bow. ;)

[Mark]

Piney, I have an old copy of the archers digest that has an Easton deflection chart measured at different lengths. I'll have to get it out and look at the data sometime today, but it's an easter egg coloring day so give me a moment to look. My testing has been done to find shafting at my draw length through prior experience, but I'll try and see what I can do. I understand that Limbwalker has a dial indicator deflection tester also and does some testing. If you need some shafting tested just send them to me and I'll be happy to test them and post the results. This info would benefit everyone.

I don't know if I understand this correctly but are you trying to shoot a .600 Energy shaft out of a bow and you have to keep them at 32" to make them bareshaft?

bowshooter74

That is outstanding consistency in a pure carbon shaft at any price. If you ever build one of these dial indicator deflection testers and start testing carbon shafting, you'll be shocked at what you see from some manufacturers who charge $60 a dozen and up.

[James Wrenn]

Thay is right Mark.The SSTs are as consistant as most anything I have tried a lot better than most.For $40 they are as cheap as tapered wood shafts and will be around a whole lot longer. :)

[Pinelander]

Finally got around to shooting the 2200's. Here's what's going on with me and my bows...

Haven't done any bareshafting, just fletched-up 4 different length shafts -
arrow #1 - 33.5 bop (32.25 back of outsert)
arrow #2 - 32.5 bop (31.25 boo)
arrow #3 - 31.5 bop (30.25 boo)
arrow #4 - 30.5 bop (29.25 boo)
All have 125 gr. bullet points - 14-15% FOC

With no bareshafting done and using 4" feathers...
38-43# looks like arrows 1 or 2 will work.
45-50# looks like arrows 3 or 4 will work, 1 and 2 are definitely showing weak.
I suspect after bareshafting... it will be #2 for 38-43 and #4 for 45-50.

They are a bit heavier than the Bemans that I have.
Don't have a grain scale handy,
but calculations of 9 gr/inch + point + feathers show they should weigh-in approximately....
arrow 1 - 450 gr
arrow 2 - 440 gr
arrow 3 - 430 gr
arrow 4 - 420 gr

Thanks again to everyone for their input. :)

[Mark]

Dave,

Since the outsert weighs 35gr, you can drop down to a 100gr point and still be carrying 135gr at the tip. These AFC outserts, Ebay item# 7141099823 , are more streamlined than the ones that Cabelas sends, and I replaced mine with them. They're easier to pull from the target. :)

[Biblethumpncop]

If you have loose fitting nocks and can't get proper fitting replacements you could wrap either 'teflon' or 'Scotch' tape around the shaft and then apply the nock....... it keeps them centered and you can make them as tight as you like. I use to do that with some of my Beman Diva's. - John

[Pinelander]

Another good tip Mark! I just saw his stuff last week, but the picture isn't very clear and his description didn't give me the impression that anything was all that different. More streamlined huh? Like the taper is less abrupt or the ousert has a smaller diameter?

Either way... your word is good enough for me and I'll give them a try.

thanks :)

[Pinelander]

So what do you guys use to glue these on?
Cabela's included a small pkg of Easton HIT Technology 2-part epoxy.
About any epoxy will do?

[Mark]

They have a smaller diameter and are 1/4 inch longer. You have a PM.